063-Tracy Matthews: Using Your Creativity to Flourish and Thrive
What if the thing you're best at feels too easy to charge money for?
Tracy Matthews has built multiple seven-figure businesses, taught over 9,500 jewelry designers through Flourish & Thrive Academy, and lost everything in the 2008 crash before rebuilding from scratch. She's learned that most creatives are stuck because they think work needs to be hard to be valuable. Spoiler: it doesn't.
I sat down with Tracy to talk about creativity, business growth, and what it actually takes to build something that doesn't burn you out. We get into why everyone is creative (even finance guys), how your business can only grow as much as you grow internally, and why the work that comes easiest to you is exactly what you should be charging the most money for. We also talk about storytelling that sells without feeling gross, and this concept of on season versus off season that I've been obsessing over since my conversation with Brandon Washington.
What You'll Learn
- Why everyone is creative, even if you swear you're not, and how reframing what creativity actually means changes everything about how you see your work
- How the thing that comes easiest to you is your natural gift, not something you should discount or give away for free
- Why your business can only grow as much as you grow internally, and what that means for the mindset work most people avoid
- The difference between being an artist, a visionary, and an architect, and why understanding your creative type matters for how you build your business
- How to tell stories that actually sell without feeling like you're selling, by making it about your customer instead of your ego
- What it looks like to reinvent yourself every seven years, and why that pattern isn't random but a natural part of growth
- How to recognize when you're burned out versus when you're just in the wrong season of your business
- Why the nervous system plays a bigger role in your business success than you think, and how to work with it instead of against it
- The concept of on season versus off season in your work, and why constant creation mode isn't sustainable or necessary
- What it means to feed a machine versus build something that actually aligns with who you are now, not who you were ten years ago
Guest Resources
Tracy Matthews
Founder of Flourish & Thrive Academy and host of Creatives Rule the World podcast
Website: tracymatthews.com/generator (free storytelling framework)
Instagram: @iamtracymatthews
Podcast: Creatives Rule the World
Flourish & Thrive Academy: flourishthriveacademy.com
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Host: Matt Stagliano - Stonetree Creative, Maine
Generator is a podcast about the creative process, personal growth, and what it means to build something meaningful. Hosted by portrait photographer Matt Stagliano.
- Keywords: creative business, jewelry design, creative entrepreneur, business growth mindset, storytelling for business, creative burnout, personal branding photographer, solopreneur, reinvention, business seasons, nervous system regulation, Flourish & Thrive Academy, Tracy Matthews, creative mindset, Maine photographer
Transcript
So I just wrapped up a conversation with Tracy Matthews that I've been thinking about non stop since we hung up.
Speaker A:See, Tracy's built multiple seven figure businesses.
Speaker A:She started with a jewelry company that ended up in over 350 different stores worldwide.
Speaker A: Then: Speaker A:But here's what got me.
Speaker A:Instead of just rebuilding the same thing, she stopped and asked herself what it is that she actually wanted.
Speaker A:Not what her ego wanted, not what looked successful from the outside, but what she actually wanted.
Speaker A:And that led her to create the Flourish and Thrive Academy, where she's NOW taught over 9,500 jewelry designers in other makers how to build sustainable creative businesses.
Speaker A:But this conversation isn't about jewelry.
Speaker A:It's about something way bigger.
Speaker A:We talked about why most creatives believe that they're not creative, why we think work has to be hard to be valuable, and why the thing that comes easiest to you is actually the thing you should be charging the most money for.
Speaker A:Tracy said something that kind of stopped me cold.
Speaker A:She said, your business can only grow as much as you grow internally.
Speaker A:And I've been contemplating that ever since.
Speaker A:We spent a lot of time going down that road.
Speaker A:We also got into storytelling.
Speaker A:And I'm not talking about the performative storytelling, but the kind that actually connects with your audience.
Speaker A:It's the kind of storytelling that makes it about them and not you, because that's how you sell without feeling like you're selling.
Speaker A:We also talked about this concept that I learned from Brandon Washington a few weeks back.
Speaker A:This concept of work having an on and an off season.
Speaker A:This idea that you don't have to be in constant creation mode, that there's a time to build, there's a time to test, and then there's a time to step back and just let things rest.
Speaker A:Tracy's been reinventing herself about every seven years.
Speaker A:Believe me, that's something I can relate to.
Speaker A:And she's learned that burnout isn't a badge of honor.
Speaker A:It's a signal that something's out of alignment.
Speaker A:Look, if you've been grinding but nothing's really falling into place, or you're second guessing whether what you do even matters at this point in your life, or I'm telling you, watch this all the way through to the end, it's really going to be helpful for you.
Speaker A:So here we go.
Speaker A:Let's start the show with the incomparable Tracy Matthews.
Speaker A:Tracy, I am so happy that you're here with me.
Speaker A:I know that Sue Bryce, our mutual friend has spoken so highly of you and was so excited that you were going to be coming on here.
Speaker A:So I just wanted to say welcome to Generator.
Speaker A:Thank you for giving some of your time up to me and having this conversation.
Speaker B:I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker B:Matt, thank you so much.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:So listen, you're the type of guest that I've really wanted to have on here forever because your whole thing is creativity.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I talk to so many photographers and individual authors and sculptors and finance people and coaches and the word creativity, some people think it's a skill, some people think it's a gift from the heavens, some people think it's something that can never be learned.
Speaker A:What's your take on high level creativity?
Speaker A:I want to talk to you about this.
Speaker B:Oh, I have so much to say about this.
Speaker B:So, first of all, everyone's creative.
Speaker B:I don't care if you don't think that you have a creative bone in your body, you do.
Speaker B:And I believe that creativity is our biggest gift.
Speaker B:And there's a reason why Abraham Maslow put it at the top of the hierarchy of needs, at the very, very top pillar as you're moving towards self actualization.
Speaker B:Because when you are creating, you can't be in fear.
Speaker B:When you are creating, you are manifesting and adding value to the world and your life.
Speaker B:And so I think that there's this misconception about creativity.
Speaker B:Can I share a story with you?
Speaker A:Absolutely, as many as you want.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I've been an entrepreneur for a very long time.
Speaker B:And about midway through my first business, I moved to New York City.
Speaker B:And when I moved to New York City, I met this guy named Art.
Speaker B:Art.
Speaker B:It was a guy who worked in finance.
Speaker B:He was dating a friend of mine.
Speaker B:And as we were like sitting and enjoying some spicy margaritas, he started dialing in on my business a little bit.
Speaker B:And one of the things that he said, he was like asking me a little bit more about some financial modeling.
Speaker B:And I couldn't answer the question.
Speaker B:So he said, why don't I come down to your studio and we'll work together a little bit and I'll help you out with some of that financial modeling.
Speaker B:So he comes in through the canal.
Speaker B:My office was down on Canal street, the place where all the knockoff handbags are.
Speaker B:And he comes through the elevator door and comes up to the fourth floor, walks out into my studio and looks around and was like, amazed.
Speaker B:He's like, I've.
Speaker B:This is so creative.
Speaker B:As he's like looking around at my little artisans working on the jewelry.
Speaker B:And he said to me, I don't have a creative bone in my body.
Speaker B:So if for all the people here thinking, I mean, you talk to creatives all the time, but for anyone who ever has said to themselves that they don't have a creative bone in their body, this is the kicker.
Speaker B:Because Art and I worked together for a little while and a couple of days later he sends me this incredible spreadsheet and financial model.
Speaker B:You put it in number one place, it spits out this equation in another place.
Speaker B:And I'm sitting here thinking to myself, this is so creative.
Speaker B:And this is one of the first times that I realized that everyone has a different type of creativity, right?
Speaker B:Some people are artists, some people are visionaries, some people are architects like Art, who are able to see complex problems and turn them into simple solutions.
Speaker B:And so I truly have so much to say about creativity because I think that every single person in the world, when they are fully aligned with their creative gifts, anything is possible.
Speaker A:Do you think that people don't believe that they're creative because they're seeing themselves as deficient in something that someone else can do?
Speaker A:Something rooted in our own self awareness, self judgment, that we never get to the point where we recognize our own creativity and then take the time to explore it?
Speaker B:Well, I think that creativity is.
Speaker B:Most people think of creatives as artists.
Speaker B:And so if you're not painting or drawing or creating something with your hands, then they don't think that they're creative.
Speaker B:But creativity, as I mentioned earlier, comes in many forms.
Speaker B:And I'm not sure if I'm answering your question fully, but you are.
Speaker B:I think that the deficiency thing is an interesting way to look at it because just because I can't draw like a human form doesn't mean that I'm creative.
Speaker B:Actually, like, my creativity has made me millions and millions of dollars over the years because it's helped me solve problems, it's helped me think outside the box, it helps.
Speaker B:It's helped me come up with new ideas.
Speaker B:And so I'm really here on a mission to help people reframe what they think creativity is.
Speaker B:And you know, you're a photographer, right?
Speaker B:So your creativity really shines through looking through a lens and seeing someone in a way that they've never seen themselves before.
Speaker B:I'm guessing.
Speaker A:Yeah, I try.
Speaker A:I try.
Speaker A:I want to go back a little bit in time because the stories that I've heard of you in the research that I've done, you've gone through a lot in reinventing yourself.
Speaker A:Over and over and over.
Speaker A:And one of the mutual things that we have is a love for creating jewelry.
Speaker A:Not good at it.
Speaker A:Love doing it.
Speaker A:I had a side business, and it was metalsmithing, and it was great.
Speaker A:But you were able to grow it into a monolithic, huge company.
Speaker A:Can you tell me a little bit about that business and then how you reinvented from there into the next phase and then into the next.
Speaker B:Right, yeah.
Speaker B:So if we.
Speaker B:If you.
Speaker B:If we take way back, like, where I started my interest in this, you know, one day I got a phone call.
Speaker B:When I picked up the phone on the other end, the person on the other line said, we don't think she's going to make it.
Speaker B:And they were talking about my mother.
Speaker B:And at that time in my Life, I was 21, about to turn 22 years old.
Speaker B:I was taking a break from school.
Speaker B:I knew that I was here and meant to do something.
Speaker B:And the saddest part about her passing away so early, it was very sudden.
Speaker B:She was 45 years old.
Speaker B:She had just started living her life for herself.
Speaker B:Up until about two years before her death, she had lived her life for everyone else.
Speaker B:Her children, her spouse, her family, like everyone else.
Speaker B:And then, you know, in the last couple of years of her life, she decided that she wanted to do something for herself.
Speaker B:So she was starting a business.
Speaker B:She had met the man of her dream.
Speaker B:She was getting engaged and was about to, like, launch off and follow her passion.
Speaker B:And so in that moment, when she died, I realized that life was too short not to follow your dreams.
Speaker B:And it was really the guiding post for me to find something that I was passionate about, to move forward and build a life and a career around that.
Speaker B:Now I am one of the lucky ones who comes from an entrepreneurial family.
Speaker B:I am naturally at risk.
Speaker B:I naturally have this ability and desire to take risks in my life.
Speaker B:So when I went back to school and wanted to be an artist and an art major, I realized I had to work full time.
Speaker B:And so I worked something out with my dean to take art classes as electives and get credit for it for my degree.
Speaker B:The first class I took was a jewelry making class and got really, really lucky because my teacher or my professor really saw a natural talent in me, and she's like, you know, one thing that's really interesting about your skill set, Tracy, is you're.
Speaker B:You're naturally talented at making the jewelry.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:But you understand what people want and what is stylish right now.
Speaker B:And so I was working in retail at the time to put Myself through school, and I would wear the jewelry that I was making.
Speaker B:People would want to buy it off my neck.
Speaker B:And we would go out, like, I worked at Nordstrom, so we would go out into the mall, so I wasn't like selling something on the floor.
Speaker B:And people would literally like, hand me cash and like buy the necklace off my neck.
Speaker B:And so I realized I had something.
Speaker B:Started a business in my late 20s full time.
Speaker B:I did the side hustle thing for a while and then started this business full time and eventually grew that to a seven multiple seven figure brand over the course of the history of that career.
Speaker B:And midway through, I mentioned that I moved to New York and wanted to move there so that I would have, you know, a stronger connection to international buyers, which was great.
Speaker B:I landed some really big accounts living there, including now the now defunct Sundance.
Speaker B:But it was a great, A great store to work with, a catalog to work with, the Sundance catalog, Bloomingdale's, Anthropologies, some of like, these really amazing big accounts.
Speaker B:I landed a show on QVC.
Speaker B:So, so many amazing things.
Speaker B: And then in: Speaker B:And I just shipped hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of orders for the holiday season that were never paid for.
Speaker B:And as those bankruptcy notices started coming in, I had to make a really tough decision.
Speaker B:You know, I spent all these years building this brand.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:My products were sold in over 350 stores around the world.
Speaker B:And I, you know, had all this fame in some way, shape or form.
Speaker B:And I literally was at this crossroads, like, who am I if I'm not doing this?
Speaker B:But I made the hard decision to close the business down.
Speaker B:I did have to file for bankruptcy because I was in significant amount of debt.
Speaker B:And that was one of the first moments when I was working with my mentor at that time, where I really sat down and got back into alignment with what it was that I wanted to do.
Speaker B:You see, sometimes when we're building something, we have a dream or a vision of what success looks like, and then we're 10 years down the road and that vision of success isn't actually really what we want anymore.
Speaker B:But because we built this thing, we're like feeding this machine to keep on going, and it's like burning us out.
Speaker B:And unless there's awareness and clarity there.
Speaker B:And I was much younger at the time, you can get a little bit lost in the day to day of everything that you're doing to run your business.
Speaker B:And also your ego can keep you stuck in that, that cycle.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, because I had this moment to step back and really reflect on what I wanted, I got clear that, you know, I. I love making jewelry, and I still wanted to make it, but I just didn't want to do it the way that I was doing it.
Speaker B:And I had to find a different way.
Speaker B: e beginning, because this was: Speaker B:The Internet was just kind of our online shopping, I should say.
Speaker B:The Internet had been around for a while that online shopping started to become a thing.
Speaker B:And so I built a website and I started designing fine jewelry.
Speaker B:Much higher price point, much higher touch service.
Speaker B:Very, very quickly.
Speaker B:I built a very profitable side hustle.
Speaker B:I call it a side hustle because it didn't take a lot of time that was making me hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
Speaker B:People were reaching out to me to pick my brain about starting a jewelry company because I was relatively well known in the industry at that time.
Speaker B:And that's when I started my company, Flourish and Thrive Academy.
Speaker B:So there's so many reinventions in there, and there's a lot more to say.
Speaker B:But I want to pause here.
Speaker B:Like, I've been talking for a while.
Speaker A:There are a couple of things in there that I wanted to explore a little bit because there were these little threads in some of the statements that you made, and I wanted to tug on them just a little bit.
Speaker A:So many of the creatives that I speak to, one of the things is, if it's easy, it's not worth as much.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:And you were saying, oh, it's a side hustle because it was easy and you were just using your skills and your talents?
Speaker A:Do you find that this is a common thread through some of the creators that you talk to that might be blocked in their growth, that they're doing something that's easy, but they don't think it can.
Speaker A:They can make a living from it because it's easy.
Speaker A:Work is supposed to be difficult, aren't isn't it?
Speaker B:Well, I think we're taught in our culture that everything needs to be hard.
Speaker B:And there are seasons of hard.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes things are difficult.
Speaker B:We have to get through them.
Speaker B:We need to learn a lesson and all those things.
Speaker B:But the thing that you're naturally gifted at, the thing that is the easiest for you, is actually the thing that you should be making money at.
Speaker B:So the thing that feels fun, that feels in flow, that feels aligned, that you enjoy doing, is the thing that you should probably be making money at.
Speaker B:And I say probably because Sometimes people have hobbies that are really fun and easy, and they're.
Speaker B:They're not interested in monetizing it.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, we like to make everything hard.
Speaker B:And so it is a misconception that in order for it to be worth it, it needs to be hard.
Speaker B:But I think the first step to understanding how to get out of that cycle is to understand that the thing that comes so easily to you is actually your natural gift, and that's the thing that you should get paid for.
Speaker A:Very few people that I talk to believe that they have that gift.
Speaker A:They've wandered into something, they've worked hard at it, but they still feel like it's not as easy as it should be.
Speaker A:And they're often eschewing the sides of their lives that are easy, the things, the passions that they do want to pursue.
Speaker A:And in the conversations that I've had with sue and others, it's about that alignment.
Speaker A:Right now.
Speaker A:I want to keep coming back to the alignment, because that's really where everything feels just perfect.
Speaker A:Weightless, right?
Speaker A:You're in flow.
Speaker A:Is there a difference in your mind the way that you were running your jewelry business moving into the academy?
Speaker A:Is there a difference in how you felt, whether it was easy or not?
Speaker A:Did you feel more in flow in one than the other?
Speaker A:Did you just naturally find yourself doing the thing that you were meant to do?
Speaker B:You mean from going from the jewelry and the coach?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The way that evolution happened.
Speaker B:So I've always been a natural teacher.
Speaker B:I didn't realize it early on, but even the people who worked for me for many years said that I was a mentor to them.
Speaker B:And even though we had an employee employer relationship, like, I really tried to teach people how to show up in their job or they learned a lot about running a business, because a lot of the people I hired in the early days were people who wanted to start their own jewelry business at some point.
Speaker B:Running a business, you know, it is a skill that has to be learned.
Speaker B:So I wouldn't say that that part was always easy from stepping into the next thing, but what I always my.
Speaker B:My North Star, or the True north, for me, when I was like, reinventing or stepping into something new was what was I passionate about?
Speaker B:What was the thing that made me excited to show up every day?
Speaker B:And so when I started this new jewelry company, it was really fun.
Speaker B:I was also teaching yoga at the same time as a little bit of a side hustle, because I'm multi passionate.
Speaker B:If you can't.
Speaker B:If you can't tell by now, in this process, there were just a lot of things that were just coming to me and I. I was working with a different mentor than the one that I mentioned earlier.
Speaker B:But I was at this live event and we were sitting there and my friend Danielle and I were chit chatting and she's like, you know, you really need to start like the B school for jewelry designers.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you know, I've been thinking about it, but it just feels like a totally new adventure because I had all these people coming asking for mentorship from me.
Speaker B:When I would provide by consulting fees, they would be like, oh, I can't afford that.
Speaker B:So I wanted to create something that was scalable and fun.
Speaker B:And one of the things that I realized in the process of having to declare bankruptcy and start over and launch my new brand and all of these things, it happened so fast the second time because of all the things that I learned.
Speaker B:And that's when I kind of dialed it into a methodology.
Speaker B:The Desire Brand effect, which is what I teach through the framework of Flourish and Thrive Academy.
Speaker B:And I think really leaning into that energy of it being fun and exciting and learning something new was the thing that has always kept me moving forward.
Speaker B:For someone like me, every seven years, I kind of have to reinvent myself in one way, shape, or form.
Speaker B:It's literally in my human design.
Speaker B:Not everyone is like that, but it is for me.
Speaker B:It's just how I'm designed.
Speaker B:I am on this path of doing a lot of different things in my lifetime and teaching through that trial and error.
Speaker B:So one of the things that made the Flourish and Thrive Academy company so powerful was that all these young artists were learning how to do something the right way and to avoid how to do it the wrong way because of.
Speaker B:Of the struggles that I had been through in launching and growing my jewelry companies.
Speaker B:And so the reinvention part and stepping into these new things has just been like an ongoing path.
Speaker B:And it's been very important through each season for me to step back into what feels aligned for me.
Speaker B:And I recommend that anyone does this because if something feels hard or you feel burned out by what you're doing, there's a misalignment there.
Speaker B:And that's the reason why you're feeling that way.
Speaker B:You know, I know our friend sue talks about this a lot because she's like, you know, I was about to burn Sue Rice, my Sue Rice education down, and she had an offer to sell it.
Speaker B:And, you know, luckily it happened in the right timing, but it's like, she's like, I can't do it this way anymore.
Speaker B:And this is just how things go.
Speaker B:And so we were aware of how that energy of feeling burnout or not being in alignment goes.
Speaker A:I think you get to a point in life where that burnout feeling, you've had it so many times, you realize, I just, I just can't do this again.
Speaker A:There's gotta be a different way, right?
Speaker A:And it's, it's funny you mentioned people would come to you and then you'd give them your consulting fees.
Speaker A:It's really hard to monetize picking someone's brain, isn't it?
Speaker A:Because I, I bet everyone can do.
Speaker A:Can I pick your brain for a minute?
Speaker A:Can we just have.
Speaker B:That's a brain picking situation for sure.
Speaker B:Like, can I pick your brain?
Speaker B:I'm like, yes, fee.
Speaker B:You can't.
Speaker A:Or a fee.
Speaker A:Right, so.
Speaker A:And suddenly they have all the answers themselves.
Speaker A:Pretty surprising how that happens.
Speaker A:Now with the, with the academy, if I read correctly and correct me if I'm wrong, there have been 9,500 or so students that have, have come through.
Speaker A: know, student one to student: Speaker A:What's the thing that almost all of them get wrong at the start when they show up?
Speaker B:I think a lot of them are just expecting sales to find them and that doesn't happen.
Speaker B:You actually have to actively go, go for it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:No, I think as artists, people, they love their art and the successful artists are the ones who are willing to put themselves out there.
Speaker B:And I'll just be straightforward and honest.
Speaker B:Sue said this on my podcast a couple of weeks months ago when I interviewed her and she said, I said, sue, what would you tell someone who doesn't like selling?
Speaker B:She's like, go get a job.
Speaker B:And she's right.
Speaker A:She said, she literally said that to me.
Speaker A:She said that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Speaker B:Because if you don't want, you should in.
Speaker B:Her whole thing is self value.
Speaker B:And you know, this is what I teach too.
Speaker B:It's like you need to value the art that you do.
Speaker B:And if you are passionate enough to want to be a highly paid artist, no matter who you are or creative, whatever word you want to highly paid entrepreneur, whatever it is, you have to get comfortable selling.
Speaker B:And people are like, I don't want to be salesy, but at the end of the day, that's how you're going to make money.
Speaker B:Sales aren't going to find you if you don't put yourself out there.
Speaker B:So the most important thing that you can do is start to feel confidence in who you are, in the value you provide, and show up as the fricking badass that you are.
Speaker B:Because your creative gifts add so much value to the world.
Speaker B:And when you can see that value, it becomes easy to sell your product, whatever it is.
Speaker A:I think I remember seeing, and I don't know where, because the research came fast and furious as I was scouring the web all over the place, all this stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think you had said at one point.
Speaker A:Let me see if I get the quote right.
Speaker A:You can only grow your company as much as your founder does.
Speaker B:Oh, yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Internal.
Speaker A:Is that something you had to learn the hard way?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I'm still learning it every single day.
Speaker B:You know, it's like if you're in a space where you are not stepping up and like leveling yourself up on a consistent, ongoing basis and you're feeling stuck, your business is going to be stuck.
Speaker B:You know, I've experienced this many, many times in my career.
Speaker B: usinesses really struggled in: Speaker B:You have an inventory industry or inventory business, especially with something like jewelry, where it's.
Speaker B:It's mostly the expense of the materials that are the cost of the goods, a lot of my peers and including myself, we were wiped out overnight.
Speaker B:And so there are certain things that are out of the locus of control.
Speaker B:But if I'm looking back to that time and looking back at how I was showing up, you know, I. I kept pushing, pushing, pushing, instead of stepping back and looking inside of myself, being like, okay, what does.
Speaker B:What feels good right now, and where do I need to grow as a business owner?
Speaker B:Because until we deal with our shit, it's an ongoing thing.
Speaker B:It doesn't stop.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We're always having to deal with the internal struggles, with the demons, with whatever we want to call it, because if we don't, then the business will only grow as much as you've grown.
Speaker B:So if you're stuck in a mindset issue where you don't believe that you can get paid well as an artist, well, guess what?
Speaker B:You're not going to get paid well as an artist.
Speaker B:If you have a belief that it's hard to generate cash flow, then you are going to probably have a hard time generating cash flow.
Speaker B:And I could go down a whole rabbit hole about why this happens.
Speaker B:And so one of the things that I always include in everything that I do and teach in, in both of my businesses right now is mindset work, energetic alignment and ongoing like internal upgrades for the founder.
Speaker B:Because the more that work that you do on yourself, whether it's energetics, whether it's mindset work, whether it's healing work, that's the thing that's going to get you to the next level.
Speaker A:Now you've explained creative energy as like a life force.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And so we can, we can get as woo woo as you want because I'm all in on it.
Speaker A:But can you explain a little bit more about what you mean by it being a pure life force?
Speaker B:Creative energy is, is energy like what?
Speaker B:You know, have you ever got lost in creative play or flow?
Speaker B:You're just like for hours you're just there, right?
Speaker B:And you feel so turned in, tuned in, turned on, like the whole thing, you're like tapped in and hours go by.
Speaker B:That's what creative life force is.
Speaker B:You can't be in like the lower dredges of energy when you're in that vibe.
Speaker B:And I'll bring it back to the hierarchy of needs, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Speaker B:There's a reason, like, you know, it's like our basic needs are met and then there's like steps up that ladder.
Speaker B:You know, creativity is the highest form because when we're creative, you know, for me creativity is really connection to source God energy because when we can create our reality.
Speaker B:So one of the things that I'm really skilled at is visioning and being a true visionary.
Speaker B:And with that it comes for me to be able to visualize what it is that I want to create.
Speaker B:Everyone's going to experience this in a different way.
Speaker B:But that energy, when you're creating, when you're in flow, when you're tuned into your highest self and your highest good is the thing that will always keep you going.
Speaker A:You've done a lot with the nervous system work in the somatic work.
Speaker A:What is it that you understand better about yourself now than you did 20 years ago after going through all these different companies?
Speaker B:Personally, I mean it never ends.
Speaker B:Like this is the work never ends.
Speaker B:I think that's the one thing you think that you're getting to you a destination and you're on top of the world and business and life is cyclical.
Speaker B:You're going to have like amazing, amazing times when you're in flow and then there's going to be challenging times when you're feel completely out of alignment and lost.
Speaker B:And that's just normal part of the process.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:And so when I Look back to who I was in my 20s.
Speaker B:I mean, gosh, I blessed that woman so much, you know, after my mom passed away, because I was only, like, in my early 20s when that happened.
Speaker B:I was on a quest to, like, learn about myself and to really follow my dreams.
Speaker B:And so, you know, I started teaching and practicing, or I started practicing yoga and then eventually teaching yoga.
Speaker B:And I was on this ongoing journey.
Speaker B:And as I've grown and leveled up in business and in life, I would say the one thing that's gotten me to the next level from the healing standpoint is to know that if there's something that's.
Speaker B:That's not healed inside of me, that's popping up, then it's time to take a look at it and unravel, like, the threads that are.
Speaker B:That are keeping me stuck.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's just been an ongoing journey on me for me, and now it's.
Speaker B:It's gone even deeper into me doing more, like, plant medicine journeys and things to continue healing.
Speaker B:So, you know, I really recommend that for anyone who is really leveling up, that the more that you can heal and grow and step up into the next energetic level of yourself, like, the easier it's going to be for you.
Speaker A:The body, the meat bag, whatever you want to call it that we kind of walk around in.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:The nervous system.
Speaker A:The nervous system.
Speaker A:It means so much to our business, and we never really realized that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Taking care of ourselves as creatives, fueling ourselves the right way, making sure that this thing up in my skull is relatively content and at peace, because that's where I find my creativity being optimal.
Speaker A:Can you explain briefly, Right.
Speaker A:We don't have to go down this rabbit hole too far, but explain briefly that that connection between the body and your work, your life's purpose, the.
Speaker B:You know, there's that.
Speaker B:That book or that saying, the body keeps the score.
Speaker B:So if we're not healing, like our nervous system and getting into energetic alignment, then the body's gonna show up in a fight.
Speaker B:Flight freeze or fawn response Now?
Speaker B:I was just talking with someone at my retreat a couple of weeks ago, and we put her on the spot, and she's like, my mind just went blank.
Speaker B:And when I was talking to her, I said, you know, you're having a freeze response right now.
Speaker B:When you're under pressure and you feel like you have to perform, your mind goes blank because it's trying to keep you safe.
Speaker B:And our subconscious mind is the thing that actually is underlying everything that we're doing.
Speaker B:And so if we're not even aware of it sometimes, you know, like anxiety that we feel or low grade tension or, you know, aches and pains in our body, like pressure in our chest, all of that is our body keeping the score in our subconscious mind trying to keep us safe because of whatever happened when we were, you know, cavemen back in the day, right?
Speaker B:And so one of the things that I, you know, I started teaching yoga and practicing yoga in my early 20s and that was when I initially learned how important the, the connection between all of the systems are.
Speaker B:When we're not operating through all the systems, we're not actually fully online and stepping into our highest, creative, most aligned self.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So one of the things that I recommend, I'm actually teaching a class later at Flourish and Thrive Academy about this is how to shift your energy so that you can get back into alignment.
Speaker B:Now one of the easiest ways to do this, and anyone could do this at any time, and there's all sorts of modalities for it, is to breathe.
Speaker B:And this is something that we Forget about.
Speaker B: When: Speaker B:I'm like dealing with my own stuff and then trying to help all these finance guys, you know, deal with them losing their jobs and all this stuff.
Speaker B:One of the things that we would do is just breathe into the energy, like wherever you would feel it in your body.
Speaker B:So just start to notice, like the more awareness you can have, tuning into the sensations of your body, just move your breath to that area that's like the simplest form of breath work and release the energy.
Speaker B:And that in and of itself, if you get into a daily practice, will nourish your cells, will help you have a clearer mind, will help you show up during the hard times, will calm your nervous system down, release anxiety, like all of it.
Speaker B:And it's so simple and we forget to do it.
Speaker B:And something that's really interesting, you know, it's like there are a lot of smokers out there who quit smoking, right?
Speaker B:And they carry around a straw and the reason they carry around a straw is so that they can breathe, right?
Speaker B:Because smoking is just like an act of breathing, right?
Speaker B:You take a deep inhale and you exhale.
Speaker B:And so any sort of somatic work that can release the energy in your body is going like.
Speaker B:And doing it as a daily practice will literally change the game for you.
Speaker A:I'm going to shift gears just a little bit and I want to, I want to put some things up on screen and I want you to react to them.
Speaker A:I want to see how it goes.
Speaker A:I'm going to put this first up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:And if you're just listening, go watch the YouTube video.
Speaker A:You'll see what I'm talking about.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:This first one.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Get that picture.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:I spend a lot of time scrolling your Instagram.
Speaker A:So I'm going to bring this up, and the question on screen is, what feelings does this image bring up for you?
Speaker A:And I'm really interested in that.
Speaker A:I'm really interested.
Speaker B:This girl, my nickname as a little kid was.
Speaker B:My neighbor gave this to me was Smiley.
Speaker B:He was a guy from New Zealand.
Speaker B:And I look at that little girl.
Speaker B:It's so funny because we just did this inner child work at my retreat, and that was one of the photos I brought.
Speaker B:I'm like, where'd you get that?
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:I want to, like, just give that little girl a hug.
Speaker B:You know, I. I grew up in a very.
Speaker B:How do I say this respectfully?
Speaker B:Chaotic household.
Speaker B:When I was a little kid, I was one of six children growing up in the same household and eventually eight, because my dad had two more with his second wife.
Speaker B:You know, she just wanted to be hugged and loved.
Speaker B:And I think she smiled all the time.
Speaker B:And she had this nickname, Smiley, because that was her defense mechanism.
Speaker B:You know, smiling and just being, like, a happy kid.
Speaker B:And so the feelings that come up is like, I just.
Speaker B:She's so sweet, that little girl.
Speaker B:And also just, like, really just wanted to have a safe and, I don't know, fun, playful, creative childhood.
Speaker B:She spent a lot of time daydreaming.
Speaker A:So is it nice to think about that entire journey and how you've grown into the person that you are?
Speaker A:Is it something you would have ever believed when you were her age?
Speaker B:Well, when I was her age, I thought I was going to be a fashion designer.
Speaker B:I used to, like, sketch little dresses for my Barbies.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So she probably looking.
Speaker B:If she saw me now, probably wouldn't be totally surprised.
Speaker B:But at the same time, she'd be really proud.
Speaker B:Just like, I'm proud of her.
Speaker A:It's amazing.
Speaker A:All right, next one.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:This is like, single girl in New York era with my black hair.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That was the beginning of, like, the early days of flourish and thrive.
Speaker B:And what I would tell her is that she was.
Speaker B:Is going to impact a lot of people's lives, and she doesn't even know it yet.
Speaker B:And the feelings that come up are like, you know, pride and also excitement.
Speaker B:This is a great picture.
Speaker B:My friend Paula took this.
Speaker B:That brings up like, next level creativity and impact.
Speaker A:As I learned more and more about you and I started going to the multitude of Instagram pages and Facebook pages and websites and book sites and all the things I was getting, a few things immediately inspired, I found myself smiling.
Speaker A:I found myself thinking about my own position and what am I doing?
Speaker A:And it wasn't from a sense of shame or I'm not doing enough.
Speaker A:It was, this woman is incredible.
Speaker A:And she just keeps building and building and building.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's very clear because it all comes through.
Speaker A:Everything that you write, the authenticity in your posts, the way that you design your retreats, the way that you design the academy, all of it is very, very real and relatable and heartfelt and deep and empathetic and sympathetic.
Speaker A:And there are so many aspects of you that come through in all of that.
Speaker A:I want to hear all about this retreat that you had.
Speaker A:The aligned and activated.
Speaker A:That's what it was, right?
Speaker B:And Activated was the theme.
Speaker B:It's my creative Force of nature retreat.
Speaker B:These are my heart, I think is the best way to put it.
Speaker B:I started hosting them a couple of years ago.
Speaker B:I skipped a few years, but I will be hosting two every single year from Moving Forward.
Speaker B:And they're intimate mastermind retreats that incorporate wellness, masterminding and creativity.
Speaker B:So we do a lot of work around tapping in and healing ourselves into our next level, stepping into business things, so uncovering, like, what needs to happen, and then really leveling up and stepping into what's next for us.
Speaker B:And so I love hosting these.
Speaker B:And some of the fun things that we do are we do creative exercises.
Speaker B:Hot seats, Masterminding.
Speaker B:Sue and my friend Danielle and Felicia all attended this last event, Danielle McKinley and Felicia Romero and have been speakers at the event.
Speaker B:So I try to bring in some really incredible creatives or people who are changing the world in their industries to come in and sit down with my crew to teach them something new or to help them uncover what's next for them.
Speaker B:And they're.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't know what else to say except that they're remarkable.
Speaker B:You know, we have like breath work and sound healing and just.
Speaker B:It's so much fun.
Speaker B:They're the best.
Speaker A:What are your levels?
Speaker A:And how does someone progress from, like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker A:I have no idea.
Speaker A:I need help to wait to work with people.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is that what you mean?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So with Flourish and Thrive Academy, we have one signature program now.
Speaker B:We used to have several courses that elevated up for, you know, I built a methodology called the Desire Brand Effect.
Speaker B:I wrote a book about it.
Speaker B:Um, I train coaches to teach through that lens.
Speaker B:And as I've moved forward as an entrepreneur, I really enjoy working with people who have progressed and already have successful and thriving businesses.
Speaker B:And my coaches kind of coach and mentor the people who are in the startup phase.
Speaker B:And so now, you know, I have two separate businesses.
Speaker B:My personal brand, which is under the Creatives rule the world umbrella, which is my podcast.
Speaker A:Great podcast.
Speaker B:I know, it's amazing.
Speaker B:And Flourish and Thrive Academy, which is primarily for jewelry business owners.
Speaker B:And so for the last year or so, I've been supporting women and one man, I say one man because it's really a program for women that a guy snuck in and he's amazing in their process of their reinvention.
Speaker B:And so it's been a journey because as I'm building like my offer suite for my personal brand, it's kind of, I'm kind of in this stage of like, okay, what is the thing that I really want to be known for?
Speaker B:And what I realized is that, you know, at the core, everything that I do is all about branding, creativity and building a business that is aligned with the highest and best version of you and that is fully connected to your vision of success at whatever point that you are.
Speaker B:So in the new year, I'm going to be launching a new Mastermind style program where it's direct access to me and it's a little bit of a higher ticket experience where it will include the retreats and everything.
Speaker B:I'm still working on the name, but it's going to be something along the lines of Creative Icons that might be the final name.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:But I help women step into their iconic selves.
Speaker B:And so to be their most financially abundant, to really own their magic and their talent and their skillset, and to be their most, the, the most creative freak show that they want and to be able to really step into what it is that they're meant to be.
Speaker B:These women are building movements, they're impacting their communities and that's, that's how people get to work directly with me right.
Speaker A:Now, knowing that there have been thousands and thousands of students that have come through, I'm sure there's a handful that really stick out in your brain as this is a true success story.
Speaker B:Okay, do you want actual ones?
Speaker B:I'd have to share those.
Speaker B:It's so fun.
Speaker B:Okay, so one of the women at my retreat, she is in like a little bit later in life, she's turning 70, I think this year she, you know, she built her business.
Speaker B:She's a jewelry artist.
Speaker B:And there's like several different segments of jewelry makers, designers, jewelers.
Speaker B:Like, there's so many different facets of the jewelry industry.
Speaker B:She's what we call a jewelry artist.
Speaker B:She's very creative, like a painter.
Speaker B:Also at heart.
Speaker B:She came to us like maybe four or five years ago because she was exhausted, did not want to do art shows anymore.
Speaker B:Her husband had passed away and she needed to figure out a different way.
Speaker B:And in that time, she had lost basically her studio, her home, and like all these things.
Speaker B:So she starts working with us, super tech challenged, starts to learn how to sell online.
Speaker B:I just love this woman so much.
Speaker B:Her name is Laura Stamper.
Speaker B:Ends up taking several of our programs, is now like using our AI tool like a boss.
Speaker B:And the cool part about it is in this short period of time, she was able to replace all of her show income and increase her business by 400% year over year.
Speaker B:And I'm really proud of her because, you know, a lot of women who are later in life, you know, it's the tech side, like all these things, it becomes very hard.
Speaker B:And she just decided that she wants to retire.
Speaker B:And so she's literally planting the seeds in order to do that.
Speaker B:So to me, that's a real success story because she's set up a business that she can do kind of as a side hustle in retirement because she, she's mentioned she doesn't want to completely stop being an artist, but she does want to wind back a little bit.
Speaker B:And then I'll share two more.
Speaker B:There's Aaron.
Speaker B:Erin had a really significant life event.
Speaker B:She doesn't talk specifically about what happened, but she's.
Speaker B:She got her jewelry tools out to start making jewelry again about four or five years ago, and she lives on this tiny island in Alaska.
Speaker B:And she never thought that she would be able to make anything of this business because it didn't work out the first time.
Speaker B:So she ended up going through some of our programs, realizing that what she had was a real business year over year.
Speaker B:Like the first year she, you know, sold several thousand and tripled her income the following year, ended up coming to one of my retreats and events.
Speaker B:And she was like melting down.
Speaker B:And I was like, what's going on, girl?
Speaker B:Let's like solve this problem.
Speaker B:And she's like, I'm really conflicted because my business is taking off and there's only so much I can make with my own two hands.
Speaker B:And quite frankly, at this Point in time, I have to figure this out.
Speaker B:Because her husband's a fisherman, because they live in Alaska and he.
Speaker B:The way that fishing works, I don't know anything about this, but they don't get paid till the end of the season.
Speaker B:So they don't know how they're going to get how much money they're going to make.
Speaker B:And because they changed the variables, like he got paid half even though they caught more fish.
Speaker B:So they were kind of in a financial bind.
Speaker B:She's like, I have to make this work.
Speaker B:But I'm conflicted because I'm here making a choice between spending time with my kids or working in the studio to bring the family money.
Speaker B:And I don't know what to do.
Speaker B:So I helped her solve the problem and helped her figure out a way that she could make her inventory in a way that released her time.
Speaker B:The woman has been, she's like 10 x' ed her business over the last year and a half and it's so exciting because she's now able to significantly contribute to her family and she's selling well beyond her 3,500 person island that she lives on.
Speaker B:Like, her audience is international now.
Speaker B:And to me that's so exciting and it's just something that is so fun to watch.
Speaker A:I have to believe that you have a thriving, thriving community of past students or folks that are just interested in what it is that you're teaching.
Speaker A:How, how do you best build your community?
Speaker A:What are your, you know, kind of guideposts in building a community that supports itself and, you know, brings together all those like, minds?
Speaker A:Besides, hey, we're all in business and we're all making money.
Speaker A:Like, what's the thing that you find really builds community?
Speaker B:Okay, so I'm an activator and futuristic is like one of my top strengths.
Speaker B:And I'm really good at activating people and getting them to take action.
Speaker B:That is my gift.
Speaker B:Community building per se.
Speaker B:Like being every day in the community is not as much my gift.
Speaker B:And so I've known that, but I have built these incredible communities.
Speaker B:So the way that I we've built an amazing community at Flourish and Thrive is surrounding myself with members of the community and also coaches that love building community.
Speaker B:So at Flourish and Thrive, I have two head coaches or one head coach and, and our accountability coach, Don, Chelsea and Dawn.
Speaker B:And Chelsea is a community builder.
Speaker B:She has a jewelry company and she builds an incredible community around her jewelry business either way.
Speaker B:And so the way that we've done it and this has been the same for Gosh 14 years, because Flourish and Thread has been around for 14 years is that we built the community around everyone helping each other.
Speaker B:And so the price promise in it is not.
Speaker B:We don't know everything, and we don't pretend to know everything.
Speaker B:Like, I have a lot of experience.
Speaker B:I know a lot about building a jewelry business.
Speaker B:I know a lot about building a creative brand.
Speaker B:I know a lot about building a coaching business.
Speaker B:I know a lot about building a lot of types of businesses.
Speaker B:But I don't know everything.
Speaker B:And I've.
Speaker B:I've never pretended that I know everything.
Speaker B:And so I'm amazing at curating people around me who can fill the gaps of what I don't know.
Speaker B:And so I've done this in my personal brand.
Speaker B:Like, I'm.
Speaker B:One of my favorite things to do is to bring experts in to talk about different things that their expertise in that adds so much value to whatever conversation that we're having.
Speaker B:And then helping to create the friendships and connections inside the community.
Speaker B:Because when you can do that and get them connecting, people never want to leave.
Speaker B:And that's the biggest key to building community.
Speaker B:I learned this from my friend Lindsay Marie, who runs the Powerhouse Women event.
Speaker B:And when I interviewed her on my podcast, she was talking about how.
Speaker B:How she's built community because she truly is like a massive community builder.
Speaker B:She has events with like 800 people at it.
Speaker B:And one of the things that she's done so well is getting the people to connect so that they want to go back and hang out together in real life.
Speaker B:And that's the real joy of.
Speaker B:Of what we do.
Speaker B:It's like, we can teach you, like, information all day long, but the real brilliance is being able to connect with people who have lived experience.
Speaker B:Because that's the one thing that AI is never going to replace.
Speaker B:That's the one thing that just taking a course or a program can never replace.
Speaker B:Because lived experience is so nuanced, right?
Speaker B:It's like these little.
Speaker B:It's like my.
Speaker B:When I had the conversation with Erin when she felt so stuck, and she's like, I don't know how we're going to get navigate this.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, well, here's what you do.
Speaker B:And she's just like, wait, that took like five minutes for you to tell me?
Speaker B:And it literally changed my life.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, because I've lived that and I know how to fix it.
Speaker B:And this is where.
Speaker B:That's where community is so powerful.
Speaker B:So if you're not in a community, get in one.
Speaker A:You mentioned in there.
Speaker A:AI.
Speaker A:Now, I'm not trying to start a whole nother podcast here about AI, right?
Speaker A:And I'm not one that sings doom and gloom.
Speaker A:I'm an adapt and move forward kind of person.
Speaker A:What are you hearing in your segment of the world about how AI may be affecting some of your community's businesses?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Some of these women that are coming to you, are you hearing anything common between their stories?
Speaker B:This is the interesting part.
Speaker B:We have an AI tool called Desire AI.
Speaker B:I think AI is a tool and an asset that can be used to help you get way more done.
Speaker B:And one of the things that we're building out in this tool.
Speaker B:Here's the thing, a lot of artists, they're solopreneurs and they don't do the thing that they need to do because they're overwhelmed with everything that they need to do.
Speaker B:And the one thing that they need to do to make sales is to market their business.
Speaker B:And so we created an AI tool to help people with marketing their business.
Speaker B:And if anyone wants to learn about it, just reach out to me.
Speaker B:I'm not going to talk too much about that here.
Speaker B:I can understand why AI might feel very scary, and maybe I'm just not naive and optimistic.
Speaker B:I don't really know.
Speaker B:And I. I don't think that just using AI for everything is actually the answer.
Speaker B:But what it can do is help you get a lot more done in a shorter period of time.
Speaker B:Because one of my students is a graphic designer and she was talking about how she wants to offer graphic design with AI photo shoots and she was gonna charge $250 for an AI photo.
Speaker B:And I was like, that doesn't even make sense to me.
Speaker B:Like, why wouldn't you just hire a photographer?
Speaker B:You could literally get like 150 pictures for anywhere from 1,000 to $2,000.
Speaker B:Why wouldn't you just do that?
Speaker B:I mean, depending on the photographer, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, of course.
Speaker B:The type of whatever you're doing.
Speaker B:Because to me, I wouldn't do an AI photo shoot.
Speaker B:I think it's weird.
Speaker B:I mean, I might create an AI image, but it's like I wouldn't use it on my website.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:To me, I think that there is a use for it in creating more efficiency so that you can get more done and move forward.
Speaker B:And I understand why people can be scared.
Speaker B:And at the same time, like, it's here.
Speaker B:So what can we do?
Speaker B:Like you said, to adapt to this new way of being, to use it towards our benefit.
Speaker B:And that's what I am curious about, is how can we use this to our benefit to continue to move forward?
Speaker B:And I would be lying if I didn't say that AI impacted the sales of our courses anymore, because I feel like people think that they could just get any answer from ChatGPT.
Speaker B:Now, is it a good answer?
Speaker B:We don't know, because ChatGPT likes to just tell you what you want to hear.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, you know, you can ask it anything and it will give you an answer.
Speaker B:It's a answer.
Speaker B:But is it the right answer?
Speaker B:We don't know.
Speaker B:So there are some benefits to it.
Speaker B:And I know that in my business, it's really helped us be able to streamline a lot more and get a lot more done.
Speaker B:And there's this term out there called AI Slop.
Speaker B:And it's, you know, you can read those social captions.
Speaker B:Everyone's using AI.
Speaker B:It has the same formulaic things, the long dashes, the words like performative and whispers.
Speaker B:Like, no one uses those words.
Speaker B:No one talks like that.
Speaker B:And so is AI actually like using AI, you have to learn how to train it to work for you.
Speaker B:And that's kind of the problem we solved with Desire AI for these jewelry business owners and creative business owners.
Speaker B:But, like, if you're just using it and not actually training it or just taking the response and just copy and pasting it, it's obvious.
Speaker B:And that's where I think.
Speaker B:That's where I think the challenge is.
Speaker B:As a society or as business owners, we need to understand how to use it without just taking the AI slop and posting it everywhere, sending stuff, because it's a real thing that's happening now.
Speaker A:And it really is.
Speaker A:I was in a small Mastermind not too long ago, and there's a gentleman named Phil Palin, and he wrote a book for AI for small businesses.
Speaker A:And this is exactly the train that he was going down, which was there is so much more power once you've been able to train AI, your assistant to work, the best way for you, to sound like you.
Speaker A:And it's a lot more work than people realize.
Speaker A:It's a lot of iteration, a lot of work.
Speaker A:It's a ton of work.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's not this.
Speaker B:It's not the.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's faster to sometimes do something yourself, but in the long run, in.
Speaker A:The long run, it's great.
Speaker A:You know, he's a brand strategist as well, and he had been talking about how his.
Speaker A:His business has increased a significant amount in brand partnerships because he's able to work Faster.
Speaker A:It's not because he's just typing something in and pumping it out.
Speaker A:It sounds like him.
Speaker A:It's curated by him, it's edited by him, but it's allowed him to do in 20 minutes what would have taken two to three hours before.
Speaker A:So I love the fact that it can bring a new energy and faster output put to some of the small businesses.
Speaker A:The solopreneurs love that angle you mentioned in there as well.
Speaker A:And I want to tug on this about curiosity, and I want to find your approach to curiosity and how that has shaped some of your businesses or what it's doing with Flourish and Thrive Academy.
Speaker A:Now, the new classes that you're creating, the new courses, where does curiosity fit in all of that for you?
Speaker A:Are you constantly curious?
Speaker B:Well, I am a very curious person and I question everything, which is super annoying to some of the people in my life.
Speaker B:You know, it's interesting.
Speaker B:So do you know anything about CliftonStrengths?
Speaker A:Sure, absolutely.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I had a CliftonStrengths coach named Kaetra Krebs in my program.
Speaker B:She's amazing.
Speaker B:If anyone wants to learn more about it, she has her whole methodology around it.
Speaker B:Sometimes it's annoying because I question everything.
Speaker B:And I also love giving feedback and I love improving things.
Speaker B:And this is where I think curiosity comes to me.
Speaker B:And there's a beautiful side of that because, like, you know, you continue to get, like, the best output and fix, like, make things better.
Speaker B:The downside to curiosity in my case is that nothing's ever finished and it's always being, like, improved.
Speaker B:And so I mentioned this, like, a little bit tongue in cheek, because curiosity, like actually following the curiosity and following the thread is such a beautiful gift.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:We have this opportunity to see where we're inspired or to find new areas of creativity or enjoyment or things that we want to do.
Speaker B:That's where we really get to explore what's next for us.
Speaker B:And so in all of my brands, one of the things that you can for sure expect from me is that we are always going to be improving things.
Speaker B:And in fact, over at the Academy, we basically just took all of our signature programs and turned it into one program.
Speaker B:Because what ended up happening and part of the reason we're kind of in the season where we are right now is that we had three signature programs delaying the foundation course, train your customers to buy online, and our momentum program.
Speaker B:And in a perfect world, people would take one and then ascend to the next and ascend to the next, and everyone's working at their Own speed.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And we realize that at a certain point, like what everyone really wants is community and coaching right now they don't necessarily want another course.
Speaker B:So like, how can we combine all the.
Speaker B:So we got very curious and tried to figure out, like, how can we just combine everything into one central program and make it available for people at all levels and then they get coached based on the level that they're at.
Speaker B:And so curiosity helped us really streamline a business that we were exhausted from like launching all these different programs before.
Speaker B:And curiosity also led me to launching my program, the Art of Reinvention and got me to this place where I was like, okay, here's what I really want to do is create this creative icons program where.
Speaker B:Or mastermind experience.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker B:And I want to call it experience because it is experiential.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We're always going to be growing and creating something new out of it and just understanding like what is it that people want?
Speaker B:Like what is the thing that's going to elevate them to their best and highest good as a creative, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, and.
Speaker B:And how can I support them in that process?
Speaker B:So it's at the core of everything.
Speaker B:So thank you for asking that question because it's really like who I am as a human being.
Speaker A:Well, and I love that.
Speaker A:And that's kind of what I've been pulling out of this.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I've known you now for about 48 minutes.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:It's clear how much of this energy comes through.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I'm always.
Speaker A:I'm always curious about curious people, how they see things, how it drives them.
Speaker A:All right, so as I start to land this plane a little bit, we were talking before I pressed record about story selling and story and the power of story.
Speaker A:I'm a huge believer in the power of story.
Speaker A:I don't believe that everyone's a storyteller, but I believe everyone has a story to tell.
Speaker A:And what I love just hearing what you said is that you're allowing people to do that in a way that becomes bigger than them, perhaps, or not bigger than them, but allows them to be a bigger, better version of themselves by telling their story.
Speaker A:So I know I don't have the curriculum or agenda, but can you tell me a little bit about this story selling course that you're putting together?
Speaker A:And feel free to tell me if I'm completely off base with what I just said.
Speaker B:No, it's amazing.
Speaker B:Okay, so let me backtrack a little bit.
Speaker B:I will be launching A story selling program in the near future.
Speaker B:It's in the works right now.
Speaker B:I don't have a launch date or anything like that.
Speaker B:And if anyone wants to learn how to frame a really amazing story, reach out to me and we'll also share a link of this because I'm going to have a little framework that you can download.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:What I do want to say about stories and selling is that stories are the things that captivate people.
Speaker B:If you notice, like, during this podcast, I shared a variety of different stories that you may or may not have related to.
Speaker B:But the idea is in any way, shape or form, whether it's a story that you've experienced in your life that is relatable to someone else.
Speaker B:Like, I told the story about art in the beginning, where, you know, he didn't think he had a creative bone in his body and a lot of people don't, but actually he is very creative.
Speaker B:It's about turning it back to make it whoever's listening or the context of the story relevant to the person listening or reading the story.
Speaker B:And that's really where great storytelling turns into story selling.
Speaker B:Because if we can get buy in from someone and create a connection with their audience, whether you're public speaking, whether you're writing captions on Instagram or telling a story in a reel, or even just talking to a customer who might be a client someday, or a potential customer who might be a client someday, the stories are the things that people connect with because they see themselves in your story and other people's stories.
Speaker B:So the better you can get at telling stories, whether it's like, if your audience is primarily photographers, like telling the story of your clients and the weddings that you did, and all of these things that bring people into that world, right?
Speaker B:That's how you're going to land more clients because they're going to feel that.
Speaker B:And I never understood, I didn't really understand this until a couple of months ago.
Speaker B:This is literally like, it was like over my head for a second.
Speaker B:I'm like, jason, what is it that I'm really good at?
Speaker B:And he's, I'm really good at helping people cast a very big vision.
Speaker B:And I've known that for a while.
Speaker B:He's like, the thing that you have taught people, Tracy, like, I can't get this through your head enough for the past 14 years, and you've been doing it forever, is telling or showing them how to share their story, and that's how you sell a product.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, yeah, I wrote A book about that.
Speaker B:I forgot.
Speaker B:So I'm.
Speaker B:I'm joking.
Speaker B:But like, one of the things in a.
Speaker B:There's so many jewelry designers out there.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I was sitting on a park bench one time in Manhattan with Melissa Joy Manning.
Speaker B:We just had dinner.
Speaker B:She's a well known jewelry designer and she says to me, you can practically throw a rock and hit another jewelry designer.
Speaker B:And she's not wrong.
Speaker B:Like, you can.
Speaker B:So what makes someone different?
Speaker B:It's the story behind their brand.
Speaker B:It's the story in the collections.
Speaker B:It's a story in the artistry that's created.
Speaker B:It's the story of how you did this thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And what's in it for the reader and the listener.
Speaker B:So the better that you can get at telling a story and making it about them and creating that connection, whether it's in the opening hook or somewhere midway and captivating people, the easier it will be to sell whatever it is that you're selling.
Speaker A:You, you said in there very quickly, making it about them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because it is about them.
Speaker A:It's not about you coming in and spouting your ego and all your resume.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's about building that connection between yourself, the product, the person on the other side that's viewing it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And shaping it in a way that they can see themselves in that.
Speaker A:And I, I absolutely love that.
Speaker A:I think there is, you know, whether it's Campbell's theory on storytelling or Donald Miller who makes it into pop culture for building a story brand.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:These tenets remain.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because that is where the success comes from.
Speaker B:This is true.
Speaker B:I mean, can I share one other thing?
Speaker A:Yeah, please.
Speaker B:Think about it this way too.
Speaker B:Imagine you're on a sales call with someone and you hear something that they say, and you have this whole bank of like, client stories in your head.
Speaker B:You could literally just be like, oh, you remind me of this person when they came to me or when they came to us.
Speaker B:Here's what was going on.
Speaker B:It's very similar to what's happening to you now.
Speaker B:After implementing what I.
Speaker B:It is, or, you know, after hiring me to be their photographer, after, you know, commissioning me for a painting, here's the result.
Speaker B:So it's like the more that you can do that, it's like becomes a sales tool.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's almost as if you're giving social proof.
Speaker A:Without.
Speaker B:You're like.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:You're like, literally like tooting your own horn, but without.
Speaker B:But making it about them.
Speaker A:Yeah, I really like that approach.
Speaker A:All right, I'm going to.
Speaker A:I Have one more question for you.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:But before I get to it, I want to go back to the pictures, and I want to see what feeling does it.
Speaker B:Roxy.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, I love my dog so much.
Speaker B:She's not with us at the property today.
Speaker B:Otherwise, I bring her up.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:So I was never a dog person until Jason's daughter Tatiana begged for a dog for years.
Speaker B:Well, actually, both of his daughters, Natalia and Tatiana, both begged for a dog.
Speaker B:And Jason's like, what do you think, babe?
Speaker B:Should we get a dog?
Speaker B:And I was like, we travel way too much for a dog.
Speaker B:And he's like, I don't know.
Speaker B:I'm just feeling into it.
Speaker B:Like, we should get this dog.
Speaker B:And so we promised the girls a dog.
Speaker B:It takes us a couple of months to find the dog.
Speaker B:Well, I. I actually found the dog in, like, five seconds.
Speaker B:Cause I asked.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:The way that I get, like, do my research, is ask other people.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, so you just bought a dog.
Speaker B:Where did you go?
Speaker B:Type of thing.
Speaker B:And we landed on this little dog called Cranberry.
Speaker B:That was her name before we got her.
Speaker B:We're like, we don't want a dog named Cranberry.
Speaker B:And I. I was dead when I saw that little dog.
Speaker B:I was, like, crying the second I picked her up.
Speaker B:And she's just the best.
Speaker B:People love my dog so much because she has literally the best personality.
Speaker B:She loves people so much.
Speaker B:She just is, like, here to spread joy and love and, oh, my God, she's the cutest.
Speaker A:We don't deserve her, man.
Speaker A:We don't deserve them.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So I just.
Speaker A:I had to, because I saw pictures, and I was like, well, if you own a dog, I'm gonna ask you about your dog.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So I was having dinner a couple weeks back with a gentleman who makes a lot of content online.
Speaker A:His name is Brandon Washington.
Speaker A:And we were talking about burnout.
Speaker A:We were talking about our businesses.
Speaker A:We were talking about, you know, how many artists and business people are being forced to become content creators.
Speaker A:And regardless of where you look, there's another method and there's another way and a better way in a faster, in a cheaper way, and more results.
Speaker A:And a lot of people would come to him and say, hey, Brandon, you know, you should be doing this.
Speaker A:He's like, yep, I'm going to do that.
Speaker A:I'm finishing my season.
Speaker A:So I. I asked him, you know, what do you mean by season?
Speaker A:He's like, well, he likened it to baseball.
Speaker A:And he brought this from a story with his son that he was teaching to play baseball, that there is an off season and an on season.
Speaker A:And at this point of creation, I have my path and it's my on season.
Speaker A:All this stuff that's coming at me I will address in the off season.
Speaker A:Right, where you manage the muscles again and you train for next season and then you can test and play and iterate and ideate and come up with new things that grow your business.
Speaker A:And I've been obsessing about this.
Speaker B:I love this.
Speaker B:Tell me about this.
Speaker A:So I've really wanted to get your opinion on that and throw a question at you where you think about your business like that.
Speaker A:Do you have an on season in an off season?
Speaker A:As a serial entrepreneur, as someone that's.
Speaker B:Constantly growing, I love this concept.
Speaker B:So I put on my vision board or my desires.
Speaker B:I don't know if it was a vision board.
Speaker B:I wrote it out for the year that I want to start taking July and December off.
Speaker B:I took three weeks in July off and I took.
Speaker B:And I'm hoping to take most of December off, probably three weeks.
Speaker B:But to really take it off, meaning, like I'm not working and not doing anything work related, that everything's set up before.
Speaker B:In the future, I would like to take the summer off completely and December and January.
Speaker B:January is a little bit tough though.
Speaker B:Like, I. I really don't love working in January.
Speaker B:I don't know why we needed to do November in January.
Speaker B:I think because for the last 14 years, or actually for my entire career since I've been an entrepreneur, there's been a big event in January, either a trade show or a launch or something.
Speaker B:Because it's the beginning of the year.
Speaker B:You want to capture that, like, you know, new year, new you energy.
Speaker B:And it would be just amazing to take January off at some point.
Speaker B:I haven't ever done it, so maybe that's on my goals list.
Speaker B:But I love this concept of an off season.
Speaker B:Like, I'd love to figure that out, like in a really contextual way.
Speaker B:But for me, right now it's December and July.
Speaker B:What about you?
Speaker A:For me, you know, you said at the beginning of the podcast that about every seven years you reinvent yourself, right?
Speaker A:And I've done the same thing.
Speaker A:I was a teacher and I ran nightclubs and I was a bouncer and then I was in high tech and then I was in biotech.
Speaker A:Like I've done all the things right.
Speaker A:It used to be every seven years right thereabouts, this thing bubbles up in me and I then go into this Almost retreat of all right.
Speaker A:I guess I'm mentally disconnected from what I was doing before.
Speaker A:Let me connect with this new thing that's giving me dopamine rushes and address that, and that becomes the new season that I'm driving towards.
Speaker A:I think there have been these moments where I consider it an off season.
Speaker A:I'm in one now as I'm building more and more content, more and more video, straying from my photography roots.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I'm creating more video.
Speaker A:So I feel like I don't have it right yet.
Speaker A:But I'm working during this off season to get it right.
Speaker A:Because when the next iteration of me comes out, whatever, whenever that is, I will have all of those tools in place and I can focus on other stuff, other parts of creativity, other parts of flow, other parts of production.
Speaker A:So I was curious, like, like I said, I've been obsessing over this, this, this concept of on season and off season.
Speaker A:And I love, I love how you answered it.
Speaker A:Taking that little bit of time for yourself is so magnificently important.
Speaker A:You've given me so much on courses and books and masterminds and all the things you're doing.
Speaker A:What is the best way for people to start learning from you or your coaches?
Speaker A:What's the best place for them to go as a central hub that they can then spoke off to all these other tangents of yours.
Speaker B:Okay, so my website is being redesigned, my personal brand website right now.
Speaker B:And that I would normally say that's the best place, but I don't think it's going to be done by the time this podcast goes live.
Speaker B:So what I would say is shoot me a DM on Instagram.
Speaker B:I'm at I am Tracy Matthews and let's chat about your business.
Speaker B:And if you want to connect and work with me in any way, shape or form, we can figure out if it's the right fit.
Speaker B:I can.
Speaker B:If you're a jewelry designer, we can send you over to Flourish and Thrive.
Speaker B:I could tell you more about that.
Speaker B:If you have another type of creative business, I would love to invite you into the Creative Icons Mastermind experience.
Speaker B:It's going to be amazing.
Speaker B:Or we can just chat.
Speaker B:Like, come find me over there and then I'll give you a link for the storytelling, little free download, which is amazing.
Speaker B:It's just a framework for on how to tell a great story.
Speaker B:And you can grab that over@tracymatthews.com generator.
Speaker B:I'll just make a link for you guys.
Speaker B:Easy enough.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:And now I'm going to put all of this in the show notes, and I'll link everything.
Speaker A:And then when your website does update and it does relaunch, send me that and I'll just replace it in the show notes.
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker A:People can always find the new stuff.
Speaker B:And then I also want to mention this.
Speaker B:I forgot to mention this is I have an amazing podcast.
Speaker B:Since you're listening to a podcast, you might like to listen to my podcast.
Speaker B:It's called Creatives Rule the World.
Speaker B:And I have an incredible conversations with creative business owners who have made millions of dollars and done amazing things.
Speaker B:And you'll just be so inspired by the stories that they tell.
Speaker A:I love your cover graphic of that, by the way.
Speaker A:I think it's just fun and bright and eye catching, and it does all the things that marketing is supposed to do for a tiny little thumbnail.
Speaker A:And it was great.
Speaker A:I saw it.
Speaker A:I was just like, this is beautiful.
Speaker A:I cannot thank you.
Speaker A:This was more than I could have possibly expected.
Speaker A:And I just want to thank you for your time and again, your.
Speaker A:Your openness, your vulnerability, and just the energy that you bring to all of us creatives.
Speaker A:So it's been an absolute pleasure having you here, and I hope that I can bring you back at some point.
Speaker A:I want to hear all about the.
Speaker A:The icons.
Speaker A:I really do.
Speaker A:I know you.
Speaker A:Great stories out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:This has been amazing, and I have to have you on my show, too.
Speaker A:I'd love to.
Speaker A:Anytime.
Speaker A:You just give me a ring.
Speaker A:I'm happy to be there, and I'll talk to you soon.
