064 - Angela Anderson: The Morning Routine That Will Change Your Business

Speaker A: 00:00:59

Look at that. Here we are again with another episode. I just wrapped up my conversation with Angela Anderson. She's a photographer based in Tucson, Arizona.

And what happened was extraordinary. Let me tell you why I was having the absolute worst day. One of those days where everything seems to cause a problem.

And then I had this interview, fully expecting that this too would go off the rails. I just dove in and instantly all of that melted away. I attribute that to Angela's energy of honesty and vulnerability and relatable stories.

I felt less alone in the world. And that's one of Angela's superpowers. You see, she runs this eight week photography workshop in Tucson.

She's got six kids, she manages clinical depression, and she wakes up at 4:30 in the morning every single day.

Not because she's trying to become some productivity guru, but because those morning hours are the only time she can maintain control before everything else starts demanding her attention. But here's what really stuck with me.

Ten years into building a portrait business, Angela realized her mental health was either going to kill her career or she'd have to completely redesign how she worked. So she did.

She moved to Tucson, decided she didn't want another studio, then had this overwhelming feeling while driving that she needed to give back to her local community. So she opened another studio anyway. But this time it's part shooting space, part Hart education center.

We talked about how she structures her courses, taking photographers from shooting in auto mode all the way through posing and off camera flash, pricing, legal setup, marketing, so on. Essentially, it's photography school without all the debt.

But while we're always interested in hearing about business, what really got me thinking about my own life was her morning routine. She calls it the miracle morning. Silence, affirmations, visualization, exercise, reading, writing. All the things that I've lost sight of this year.

For some, it would seem like some feel good ritual, but for Angela, it's survival. It's the difference between staying in business and shutting everything down because the weight just gets too heavy.

Angela also told me about the moment that changed everything, which happened when an old friend asked what she was up to and. Well, I. I'll let her tell you the story. Look, some days we just can't find the energy to keep showing up.

And we wonder how people balance teaching with client work while managing their mental health. And wish there was someone that could give us the easy button to come out on top. The spoiler is that there is no easy button.

But Angela's been down the road you're traveling and is ready to help you get wherever you want to go. This is a good one, if I do say so myself. So let's get it going with my special guest, Angela Anderson.

Speaker B: 00:04:11

You need to come visit my friend. You gotta get. Come get in the sunshine. Sit over the palm trees with me next to the pool. Come do it. Let's go.

Speaker A: 00:04:18

This is the best time of year because right now I was just outside walking my dog and it's like 40 degrees and raining. And that's about as good as it's going to be until May, you know. So, yeah, if you're inviting me out to Arizona, I'm on my way.

As long as, you know, at tsa, they can shut down and, you know, flights are still happening for real.

Speaker B: 00:04:42

Being.

Speaker A: 00:04:42

Being recorded. So people know. Being recorded in the middle of a government shutdown. It is what it is. I'm here. I'm an isolationist. It all works out fine.

All right, so tell me what's been going on. So you did just finish your. You had like an eight week program going on, right?

Speaker B: 00:04:58

Yeah, so I moved to. I moved to Tucson about a year and a half ago.

Speaker A: 00:05:02

Yep.

Speaker B: 00:05:03

And I had. I had a studio in Huachuca City, back out where I used to live. And I decided I don't want another studio.

I don't want the overhead, I don't want the pressure. Like, I'll just rent one when needed, you know, because I only shoot like once a week, maybe. Yeah.

And then I was driving the time and I just had this overwhelming feeling of you need to elevate the industry where you are. You need to do something to help lift people and give back.

After all of the mentorship that I've received from people who are farther on the ladder than I am. And so I thought, well, I guess I'm going to need a space. So here I am with the studio again. But it is part studio, part education center.

So I do workshops and I host eight week classes that students. It's the one that I've been doing. This is my second round of it. And it's basically photography 101.

So we start from someone who's never shot a manual and take them all the way through how to use ocf, how to pose, how to price, how to set up their legal entity, how to market. And then at the very end, we do a portfolio build where I'm completely hands off.

They have to set up the lights, they have to pose the models to give them a chance to have the material that they need to start. So, yeah, it's been absolutely so fun. I love it.

Speaker A: 00:06:39

Now, that's got to be something that takes a ton of mental energy to put together.

Now, is this something that you've always wanted to do, you always wanted to teach, or did you feel like, all right, business is slow, therefore I'm going to teach? Or people were asking you, where did the. Where did the drive come to build this sort of coursework?

Speaker B: 00:07:04

Well, I've always loved teaching. I feel like I have this way of kind of innately understanding what someone isn't getting.

I noticed that even as, like, a kid in school, my friends who were struggling, I'd be able to be like, no, no, teacher. That's not what they're asking. This is what they're asking. And it's just a passion.

I just love watching people's eyes light up when the right thing clicks and they're like, oh, oh, okay, I get it. All right. So my education, actually my bachelor's degree is to teach high school English.

So that was the path I had started and then ended up with six children. And life kind of threw some curveballs. And so trying to decide what to do once they were all in school. And photography was the right choice for me.

So. Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:08:01

Now, did you start in film? Like, did you start using film cameras and then eventually moved into mirrorless?

Did you never do anything in a dark room and just dove into digital like me? Where did you start with? Were you, like, you know, taking Pictures of your 65. Did you say 75 kids? How many kids did you have? Six.

Speaker B: 00:08:25

Six. Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:08:26

Taking pictures of your six kids, and then you're like, hey, I love doing this. How did we all have a different story with that? Right?

How did you find that you, when picking up a camera, you were like, ah, this is the thing that I've been missing my whole life.

Speaker B: 00:08:40

Okay. So I wanted to be an artist. I wanted to paint and draw.

I had all these things in my head and I wanted to put them out of my head to be able to kind of clear that creative space. And I realized I suck at drawing and painting. I took art classes. I tried to learn from people.

And, like, maybe I looked like a decent fifth grader, but I knew I was. That was not going to be the way I was going to be able to express it things, because it just wasn't.

I couldn't make what I saw in my brain come out onto the paper. And so I had one of Those real old 110 films, like the Rectangle cameras. Yeah, I got one for my Birthday when I was a kid, like a junk teenager.

And I started realizing that I could capture these things in. In ways through the camera that I couldn't with my hands. And so that was kind of my introduction to photography.

But I didn't really start really getting into it until digital age because it was just too expensive.

Speaker A: 00:09:58

Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:09:58

I don't know how people did it when it was filmed professionally because just doing it for my own family was so crazy expensive. But, yeah, so then I started. My first camera that I did. My first paying job was a Canon T3. I.

Speaker A: 00:10:15

Mine too. It was a. It was a great camera. I remember as a kid too, with those 110 cameras. And you have them here, you. Right. The whole time.

And I think that was the thing. My dad was an amateur photographer. He was a school teacher, but he was an amateur photographer. And so he had a little dark room in the basement.

I never did anything but be curious as a kid. But it was never something that he pursued professionally or I ever thought about pursuing.

I know you said you wanted to start in painting and drawing. Do you still do any of that now?

Speaker B: 00:10:48

So I just found a box of stuff when in the move that had kind of found its way to a corner somewhere and been forgotten about. And I'm going through it and I'm seeing, like, sketches that I did and I dated everything.

t time I drew anything was in: 1997

Speaker A: 00:11:11

What do you do with that? Do you look at it and feel good and then put it back? Do you take a picture of it and get rid of it? Do you save it for nostalgia and posterity's sake?

Or do you say, this is hot garbage. I'm throwing it right out?

Speaker B: 00:11:25

Well, I. I'm not very attached to stuff. We move a lot. As a kid, we moved at least once a year most of my childhood. And so I kind of got used to, you know, it's just stuff.

It can always be replaced. That box, however, is probably going to live in my garage for the rest of my life.

Speaker A: 00:11:48

But that's the cool stuff, right? That's the cool stuff that you can show your. Your kids and. And look back on. And that would be like, that's kind of where it all started.

I kind of like that. I like that. All right, let's get into the kind of the meat of things here.

So from all the years that we spent together at Portrait Masters and seeing each other on the floor and in the chat rooms and at the events and whatnot. I always saw you behind the scenes coordinating like a puppet master. Right.

You, Aaron de Groot, several others that just kind of created the production for Portrait Masters kept the production running. Well, let's, let's say, yeah, I'm like.

Speaker B: 00:12:33

I, I was just on the other end. I wasn't on the production end, but yeah, yeah, but you know, I mean.

Speaker A: 00:12:38

There still was a behind the scenes staff where, where everybody was keeping things running. That must have given you an incredible insight to how events like that are put together.

Was there anything that you drew from that that you then took into your own business and said, wow, this worked really well over here. Let me try to bring that in for my own audience?

Speaker B: 00:13:00

Not yet, but eventually I would like to get into hosting photography retreats.

And so definitely I'm learning a lot that I'm kind of sticking a pin in and be like, okay, when I'm ready for this, I'll be able to pull that out and have a little bit more context of how to make those things happen. Really the biggest thing is just working with people. So what I do is I tend to be the volunteer coordinator.

So I generally am working with 40 to 50 volunteers and we're coordinating who goes where and does what and shifts and breaks and all that. But the biggest thing that I've learned is that we all need to feel like we're a part of something.

And so if we can build a team where we're not just there to do a job, we're there to create something and to do it together as a team. The environment is just so much more happy and uplifting and everyone is more committed. And then we leave that.

Having friends like, we stay in contact with each other and we share our joys with each other and we help each other.

And so the biggest, my biggest takeaway from this experience has just been just really leading with empathy and building teams and communities that are there for each other and nail and authentic.

Speaker A: 00:14:30

One of the things that I saw you doing at these events, outside of shooting and networking and doing your thing as a photographer, was keeping everybody's energy up. And this is something that I've always seen for you. I've never seen you without a smile. I, I've never seen you not energetic.

Might be a little tired at the end of the day, but you've always been able to maintain this level of energy. I've got to believe that that takes a lot out of you. How do you maintain your own well being and your own energy when you're giving so much away.

Speaker B: 00:15:07

I am an extrovert, and so being in that situation where I'm surrounded by people who I genuinely would call friends, that is not really draining to me. I find that it actually helps me keep my energy up because I'm seeing people that I really care about that I don't get to see except for once a year.

And so I'm genuinely excited to see them and happy to be there.

Obviously, we all need our alone time and our downtime, so by the end of the week, I'll usually take, oh, a day or two to decompress and have some alone time and kind of build that back up. But during the events, I really am so excited to be there that it's not hard to keep my energy up.

Speaker A: 00:15:55

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. Very introverted, but put on an extrovert mask. When I'm out in the public or even doing something like this, I'm much more insular.

And I'm always jealous, envious, you know, of people that have this just innate ability to be up. I'm like, what pills are you on? Because I want those two, because I don't have those in my arsenal. I. I see you do all this stuff.

I was wondering if it came from an education background where, you know, you're trying to keep high school English students from, you know, ripping each other apart and you're trying to get them excited. I just.

You're one of the few people that I saw and at these events that genuine, not genuinely love what they were doing, but was never not on, never not going at 110%. And I just, I was fascinated by that. Your energy is remarkable. Let me just put it that way. So with that, I know that we've all gone through things.

When did. When did you really start going pro with the cameras at like, 17ish, 15ish? Somewhere in there.

Speaker B: 00:17:07

Around: 2015

Speaker A: 00:17:09

We're around: 2015

It was a couple of years earlier, had been a couple of people there a couple of years later, but all generally in that same time period. What's changed for you from those early days to where you are now? Has anything changed?

Speaker B: 00:17:26

Oh, that's funny. Well, let me put it this way. When I first started, I. I was shooting on automatic. I didn't know how to shoot manual.

And at that time, there really wasn't access to mentors. I lived in this tiny town in Southern Arizona where there was nothing I found creative live. And that was really my only education tool.

So here I am trying to just take classes online and figure it out myself. And it was so hard.

then in. So I guess that was: 2014

But then in: 2015

It was very expensive to me at that time. Now looking back, I'm like, wow, that was a steal. But for me, I think he was charging $2,000. But it was for an entire year of meeting twice a month.

It was amazing. And I asked my husband, I was like, look, I'm not getting anywhere trying to do this on my own. And my husband's so supportive. His name is Derek.

He is my best friend and just absolutely, like, I don't know, I couldn't, I would not be here where I am without him. He said, let's make this happen. So we did, we made it happen. And I drove the hour and a half, two hours up to la.

I think it was Pasadena, technically the outskirts in la. And we would meet and he taught me everything. All the technical things that I know came from those classes.

And one of the things I really valued was he'd call me out so we would have opportunities to show images that we had created during the time away from each other. I would drive home from these things in tears, Matt, because I'd be like, oh, I'm doing so good. This image is so good, he's gonna love it.

And he would just be like, okay, no, look at the lighting, look at this pose, look at that. And I'm like, I've never been. I suck. I'm never gonna be good. I don't know how to do this, I don't know how to do it.

But it was that experience that helped me finally kind of feel, figure some things out and get to the point where, okay, I know how to look for good lighting, I know how to check for posing, I know how to make sure composition is decent.

And so I feel like it was that experience of being one on one with a photography master who was so he cared so much about his students that he wasn't afraid to call us out. And that really changed everything. That got me to where I was technically better. I was skilled on the technical side.

And then I found the Sue Rice Group, and that was where my mind just exploded from the running a business side of it. And so it was kind of these pieces that kind of fell into place along the way.

And, yeah, where I am now and the business model I have is night and day from those days. I'm shooting on automatic and handing over 300 images because I didn't know how to sit and go through things with the client and help them choose.

Speaker A: 00:21:30

So, yeah, it's a really big shift when we go from the artist mentality back into business mode or we start into business mode. Right. Because all the mentors and the folks that we learn from have a different focus. Right.

And that's why we get attracted to them for certain reasons. But you have to get over that technical hump first before you really can even consider the business.

What was the big shift for you in going from that artist to the business driven artist as well?

Because there are shakeups in there, and I'd love to hear how approaching it now as a business is much different than you just getting better at the craft so that you can produce better images. Right. So how do you. How do you explain that shift in your world?

Speaker B: 00:22:26

I think it was realizing that learning business was more about learning who I am and building myself mentally and emotionally and getting myself healthy in that way so that I could build a business. Because I think, like a lot of us, I started out with that. I don't want to charge anyone.

And I'm sorry, like, I don't mean to charge as much and just feeling really guilty about asking for money and trying to figure that out. And I did grow up. A lot of my childhood was in poverty, and so it was cute.

Like, in my brain, I'm like, someone's going to pay thousands of dollars for a photo shoot. Like, no way. That's insane.

hink the biggest thing was in: 2019

I could not believe that I Was spending that kind of money on a photo shoot. But going through that process and hearing them say, okay, well, it's fifteen hundred dollars for this.

And then each image is this much and da, da, da. And very like, cut and dry. And they didn't feel bad about it. And they were just telling me what it was, and I. I didn't feel judgment.

I was like, oh, okay, yeah, all right. Yeah, okay. And then I went. That's what my clients are thinking. Like, they're not mad at me for charging.

I'm just going to tell them what it is, and then they can choose whether or not it works for them. And if it does, great. And if it doesn't, maybe they'll come back later and maybe they won't. And that was just huge.

Was realizing that I need to take my own self out of it, right? It's not about me whether or not my clients book me. It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with, are they ready? Is this something they want?

Is it something they value? It's not hurting my feelings anymore if someone says, you know what? You're too expensive. Okay, that's all right.

I'm here for you, you know, if you decide you're ready down the road or, you know what? I just don't really love your style. Okay, that's great. Here's some of my friends who do it, like, more like what you're looking for. It just.

I've realized that I do this to serve and to be able to give people the opportunity to see themselves the way I see them. And so it's not about me, it's about them. And now I can move forward with, okay, I'm going to do this as a business.

And in order to keep serving, in order to keep giving this experience to people, I have to actually be sustainable. And that means I'm going to have to charge. And I'm sorry, that might be rough for somebody. But you know what?

I have a lot of people who will save up and then come or who will come and do a payment plan. And nobody's mad at me, right? Because it's not about me. It's about me serving them. And that, I think, was the biggest shift for me.

Speaker A: 00:26:05

It's super important. And I kept my mouth shut because it's super important for every business owner to hear.

Speaker B: 00:26:10

I.

Speaker A: 00:26:10

We look at ourselves as artists and say, we can't charge that much. Mainly because inside of us, somewhere there is. I wouldn't pay that much for photos, right?

Because we're not thinking about what goes into making the photo.

We're not thinking about the time in energy, in equipment and moments away from our family and all the stuff that we're shelling out to try to learn and get better at a craft so that we can serve other people. When I get estimates for fixing my roof or putting in a new water heater, I'll get estimates from different plumbers and electricians and roofers.

And if I go with one over the other, I'm sure Joe the plumber isn't going. I must be terrible at my plumbing. I can't do this. Why do I charge this much?

No, they say this is what I need to pay my staff and pay myself and support my family. And you want it or not?

And I think that little bit of, you know, fuck you attitude from a business owner isn't a bad thing because it shows a little bit of confidence in yourself. This is what I need.

And if you're getting offended that clients don't hire you based on that, then that's more an issue for you and how you're communicating your value than it is about the price tag associated with it. Right. Most of us value a plumber and electrician. When something's broken and we need it fixed.

You and I are in a luxury service that no one really needs unless they need it for something.

A lot of times it's for feeling better about themselves or capturing legacy or, you know, something that has historical value to it, and we suck at getting that across most of the time. I'd love to hear, as you learned from these different mentors and you.

And you learn from sue and you learn from others, Was there a piece of really unhelpful advice that you got, you know, to just kind of keep pushing forward? Was there some sort of unhelpful advice that you got at some point that when you removed that block, things just really opened up for you?

Speaker B: 00:28:25

I would love to say yes, so that I have a story here, but no, I. So the photographer that I learned from is Scott Laubert Lim.

Speaker A: 00:28:35

Oh, sure.

Speaker B: 00:28:36

And, yeah, everything he taught me has been helpful. And. Yeah. And then. Well, also. Okay, so part of it might be that I have.

I'm pretty decent at filtering, so I love learning from a lot of different people and then kind of letting the little things that don't go with how I'm wanting to do things, just kind of letting them go by the wayside and taking the things that helped and kind of adjusting, making the system my own. So maybe that's it.

But honestly, I think I just had amazing mentors and friends who gave me good, helpful tidbits and nothing really has been, I would say, unhelpful.

Speaker A: 00:29:23

Are there systems that you've built right as. As you're building this business that allow you to be a better client facing photographer? Right.

So everybody's got their own system and I don't care if it's computer driven or you use an illegal pad, but you've got a system. Is there anything that you developed that really allowed you to connect better, shoot better, provide better service, get better products?

Was there something in there that, that you developed a system around and said, if I repeat this over and over, I'm going to be successful?

Speaker B: 00:30:05

So I'm going to answer that question in a way that you're going to be like, that is not the question I asked you.

Speaker A: 00:30:14

Oh, I can't wait for this then.

Speaker B: 00:30:18

One of my biggest challenges is I have clinical depression and that has really been difficult as an entrepreneur. And there have been so many times when I hit a depression low and I'm paralyzed and I can't functions for weeks and I'm like, why am I doing this?

I can't do this. Like why, why was I thinking I could run a business? Like I can't even force myself to call this client back.

And I keep mentioning Sue Brice, but it's just that she. Everything I've learned from her has been so integral in where I'm at today with my business.

But she had posted something on Facebook about kind of being in a slump and dealing with this kind of some. It was very similar to how I was feeling at the time.

And I went, wait a minute, if this powerhouse of a human being can make this work even while dealing with this, then I can fucking make this work. And so most of my systems are built around being able to continue functioning when I can't function. And so I write everything down.

I have everything in my paper calendar so that I can see at a glance. Wow. So that's my October. I've got an analog and I've got digital. So on my calendar, on my phone.

That way if I'm out and about and don't have my paper calendar, I can still add things in, but then I do things that kind of help keep me going. So I found this app, it's called Habatica and it basically gamifies normal daily tasks and habits because I am neurodivergent.

And so I am constantly like, if there's no dopamine hit from it. I do not want to do it. And so this app has helped me be more consistent.

So I go in and you put in the things that you want to accomplish, and then when you check them off that you did them, you earn XP and you earn coins, and then you can go buy pets and outfits. I know it's so juvenile, but. And then the great thing about it, though, is that if I don't do it, then my health goes down.

And that in and of itself is. That's okay. But there's a social aspect, so you can have friends and you can go on quests together.

So if I then do not do the tasks that I set for myself, it hurts the health of the whole party. So it's kind of like a Lord of the Rings thing where we're trying to get this ring to Mordor and I cannot let my people down. I know, I know.

It's so silly, but it helps me get, like, the top priority things. So when I'm dealing with a low and I'm really struggling and getting out of bed is, like, taking up 90% of my energy for the day.

I can go in and I can set my top three things. I can be like, okay, I have to email this client back.

I have to prep this one invoice, and I have to call through this gallery that I just photographed. And if I do those three things, then I can check them all off, and I'm going to call today a win. And so I've just learned to.

I found things that help me keep going when I don't want to keep going, and I've learned to give myself grace when it's really hard, and I just feel like I can't even continue. You know, you look at it and it's. It just feels paralyzing and overwhelming. Then I'm just like, you know what?

I'm going to do this most important thing today, and then today is going to be a win, and I'm not going to beat myself up for it, and we're just going to keep on moving.

Speaker A: 00:34:28

There's so much mirrored here. I'm also clinically depressed. I'm also neurodivergent. I also have the adhd. I have my good weeks. I have my bad weeks. There's so much in there.

I'm like, oh, yeah, no gamifying. It makes all the difference in the world.

And one of the things that I had heard from Donald Miller, who wrote Building a Story Brand, I was listening to his podcast for a long time, and he Mentioned gamifying as one of the things that helps drive us forward. Right.

Little bits of rewards, whether it's going to the gym, whether it's showing up for your clients, whether it's just getting the garbage to get from the kitchen to the garage. Like you have to gamify something to keep yourself going. Otherwise it's too easy to rationalize away all the reasons that you shouldn't do it.

What does a good week in productivity, in mental health look like compared to a bad week?

You've talked about the guardrails that you've put around it so that you can just get a couple of things done at the base level and still be moving forward. But is there a big discrepancy in what gets done on a good week versus a bad week?

Or do your systems allow you to just keep moving forward with the same level and you're the one in your head that's determining whether on whether or not it's a good week versus a bad week. Does that make sense?

Speaker B: 00:35:48

Yes. And they are night and day. So a good week, I'm on top of things. I'm. Oh, another thing I've done, and this comes from my friend Kim Bales.

You know Kim? Oh, yeah, yeah. She, she and I are accountability partners. So we meet once a week.

And that is probably the thing that has, helps keep me on track more than anything that I, that I put into place. Someone who you can chat with and tell them this is what I, these are my priorities.

And then next week they're going to ask you, okay, how's it going? Did you do this? I'm very open with her. She knows that I deal with depression and that I have rough times. And she suggested to me the Miracle Morning.

Have you heard of that?

Speaker A: 00:36:34

I haven't, no.

Speaker B: 00:36:35

It is so interesting. And I don't remember the author of the book, but there is an author who wrote a book called the Miracle Morning and he basically goes through that.

High performing people have these certain things that they do every morning and it, it's an acronym for the word savers. So it's silence. So you spend 10 minutes in either meditation or prayer or something where you're just sitting in silence. Then there's affirmation.

So you write out your one top goal and you affirm what your goal is, why it's important, and why failing is not an option. And the top steps you commit to doing, to making that goal a reality. So that's 10 minutes. Then you do 10 minutes doing visualize.

So you sit and you visualize the day ahead of you. You literally picture everything going as smoothly and as perfectly as possible. Then there's exercise for 10 minutes, and then there's scribe.

So write. And that can be journaling, that can be whatever. You have to get up a little earlier than normal, which can be a pain for sure.

And what I have found is that I very rarely make it through all of those. What is that, six? One, two, three, four. Yeah, that's six things. So I am.

I count myself good if I make it through four of them, but the goal is to make it through six.

But doing these every morning really helps to keep me moving forward and focused on what I want out of my day and out of life, where I'm at right now. So I tell you that to say a good week means I'm getting up and I'm doing my miracle morning start to finish.

I am taking care of my dogs, I am cleaning my house, I am editing photos, I am sending contracts, I am creating marketing. I am all of these things. And I'm like, okay, awesome. Like, I got all this stuff done and a bad week.

I maybe get through two or three of the miracle morning steps, and then I maybe do two or three of the other things on my to do list. And the rest of the day is usually. I don't even want to admit this, but it's usually just scrolling on my phone. It's because I can't get out of it.

It's just that. Or sleeping. It's just really, really tough. Like, no one wants to admit that, right?

None of us want to say, oh, yeah, we wasted an entire day scrolling on our phone.

But I feel like we have to be honest with each other if we expect to make genuine connection and if we really, you know, are going to be creating friendships, because that is important. We can't just always have this facade. We have to know each other, how we really are. And. And so here you go.

Speaker A: 00:39:40

This is me, and this is why I love talking to you, because you are always open and vulnerable, and I'm very, very grateful that you're willing to share some of that. I think we often construct these narratives in our brain, especially those of us that deal with some of these issues.

We construct things in our brain that there's stories about what's happening to us that aren't really happening to us, that aren't actually happening to us. It feels it, our brain believes it, our body believes it, but it's not really real. How do you separate that? Because we all do it in our own way.

How do you separate what your brain is telling you versus what you intellectually know to be the truth? Are you able to see that separately and claw your way out of it? Or do you just say, this is what it is right now, this is reality.

And hopefully tomorrow will be a different one.

Speaker B: 00:40:46

So I have learned to think of depression lows when they hit as an entity. So for me it's like, okay, depression is back again. It's visiting. This is not me. This is like, I, I know I'm feeling this, but I know it's not me.

I know this is coming from this external source. This is not who I am. Also have someone you can talk to about it, like, because there are times when I can't separate it.

There are times when it just is too heavy and that honestly, Kim has been so good for me for that. Because she'll be like, all right, you know, that's not you right now. Like, this is not you talking.

You need to give yourself some grace, like, quit doing this.

So have someone that you can be genuine and open with and who is a good enough friend that they'll call you out on your bullshit, but they'll be like, look, this is not you. Nothing off did your shit together. Let's, let's move forward. You got this.

Speaker A: 00:41:55

Do you find that that gives you more empathy or sympathy to some of the people that walk into your studio and clearly are not having a good day or may have gone through something just prior where they were excited before and now they've got this mental weight hanging over them? Do you find yourself more sensitive to that?

And if you are, how do you deal with it when a client walks in like that and you know exactly where they are.

Speaker B: 00:42:24

So when a client walks in and I can see that they're carrying a weight, that something is difficult. I'm just going to care for them. I'm going to, depending on who it is.

But most of the time, most of my clients, they're friends by the time they get to the photo shoot, because we've done, we've met at least twice before the photo shoot to have our consultation, to have our planning meeting, they have shared things with me and become vulnerable and I'm helping them along their self acceptance journey.

And so when they come in, it's usually just wrap my arms around them and give them the space to feel whatever they feel and then we kind of just take it. So we'll start with chatting and it's such a safe space too.

I tell them look, this is digital, so we're just going to start snapping and if you hate the photos, we just delete it. Like, there's no, there's nothing to risk here. There's no risk. There's, there's no fear.

And so, yeah, we just kind of, we give them space to have their feelings and to cry if they need to cry, or to suck it up and be tough if that's what they need to do. And then we start photographing and as they progress into it, they relax, they start feeling better, they start feeling more confident.

And then usually within 20 minutes of being in front of the camera, they're laughing, we're dancing to the music that's on in the background. We're taking quick snack breaks to keep their energy up. And it's just really about.

You make that connection with someone and you truly care about them and then they know it, they can feel it, and then they feel safe with you.

Speaker A: 00:44:09

It's an interesting thing that we do as portrait photographers where we're able to connect with people that deeply, that quickly in a space where it's full of fear, it's full of pressure and expectation and, you know, expense we're paying for this thing to go in and have our portraits taken. And we, we impose all this pressure on ourselves.

And I think it's very important for people that are not photographers to hear the photographer's side, which is we want you to be in a good headspace. We want to care for you, we want to make your experience as good as possible. This isn't a 15 minute thing where you're in and out.

We're spending time together.

We need to be able to relax and connect hearing you, that you in your studio hold the space for people and you're able to get them to drop some of those guards. I also have to believe that that creates better portraits on your end. Right.

The first ones always kind of suck a little bit unless you happen to nail it at the beginning. Right.

But that's the journey of it, where you're going through this process together and leveling up with your client until you really start to get the images.

Do you find that there's a time period, 20 minutes, a half an hour, an hour, where people finally start to show up, forget about all that other stuff, and now they are fully themselves?

Speaker B: 00:45:37

You know, it really just depends on the person.

I had one client who it took like, goodness, every time we changed clothes or changed backgrounds, it was like starting fresh and it was like 30 minutes every time.

But then I just had this client just this past week who she was so fun and so confident, so into it that she was just like, and you know, go, let's go, let's go. So it really just depends. Everybody's different. Like anything else you've mentioned I've heard.

Speaker A: 00:46:09

You say, and I can't remember if it was something I heard you say or I saw it in a marketing material, but it was about helping people level up their business and their life. Right. And I know that this can be seen as like, oh, she's just marketing.

But I truly get the sense that you're looking to help people up level based on everything that you've said. Can you give me an example of when you've seen that happen with someone?

Speaker B: 00:46:34

Yeah.

So I, I think this kind of comes back from my teaching background in that I have also, I don't know, I think I'm empathic a little bit as well because I find that when someone's telling me about a situation that they're dealing with, I'm pretty good at identifying where that they're telling themselves story that isn't true. So like, if someone's telling me, well, I'm a photographer, but like, I tried to, okay, here's one.

I was working with someone and I helped him up, level his prices. I helped him get to where he was at a sustainable pricing level, helped him analyze his cost, doing business, all that kind of stuff.

And then he, I'm checking in with him and he's like, well, ever since I changed my prices, like, I'm not even getting any inquiries. And before I was at least getting inquiries, and now I'm not getting anything. And I said, okay, all right, so what do you think the difference is?

Well, it's got to be my prices. That's the only thing I've changed. And I said, okay, have you told anyone your prices? No. Have you put your prices out online? No.

Then how does anyone know you changed your prices? Right? And he was like, oh, so maybe it's not the fact that you changed your prices, babe.

And so I'm good at like kind of zeroing in on when it's reality or when it's a story that someone's telling themselves and then helping them by asking the right questions, helping them recognize, oh, that's just a story I've been telling myself that is not reality. And then through that process, kind of working through, okay, great, now, now what are you going to do now that you know that?

Okay, now let's identify.

Now if it's not your prices, could it possibly be that you are having feelings about your price change and that is coming across in the messages that you're sending. Right. And so then we start working with, okay, so if that's what it is, how can we adjust that? What can we do?

What do, what do you need to do to come to terms with this price change?

And so it's like kind of like finding the root problem or the root cause of some challenges and helping people work through the blocks and overcome them and start to really see how things really are instead of the way they've been telling themselves they are.

Speaker A: 00:49:05

It's really interesting how we convince ourselves that something is true when we have no basis in reality for that fact. Right. And your, your example is a perfect one because we often blame all these external factors for our own failings. Right.

And it, sue called it mirror, mirror, right? You just kind of hold a mirror up if you're complaining about something, all that mirror up.

Is this really the issue that is driving the lack of success? Is it really that you change your prices or have you just stopped marketing for two months and now there's no inquiries coming in? Right.

Being able to just get under the surface a little bit, hold that, that mirror up and ask people in a way that is gentle and a little bit probing and just forces them to think about things a little bit differently can break down so many of those walls, especially in the education part.

So, you know, I, I, I love that you come from an education background because it gives you so many more sensitivities to what's being said in between the lines. Right.

We all think we can understand what people are saying, but most people that have been teachers or come from a background of education, they can dig through the bullshit pretty quickly and, you know, be able to ask people what, well, what's really going on? You talked about your husband, too, about being him, being very supportive.

And with all the moves and all the changes in business, in life, how does, how does he view you now versus when you're just like, babe, I don't know if we're going to be able to afford this, but let's get this done. And he was like, let's do it. Let's get on it. He's got to be incredibly proud of you at this point.

Speaker B: 00:50:54

You're going to make me cry, Matt. I didn't think I was going to cry. I'm not an emotional crier, okay?

He does not view me any different, Matt, because from day one, he has been My biggest cheerleader.

Speaker A: 00:51:09

It's amazing.

Speaker B: 00:51:10

And I just am so, so lucky.

Speaker A: 00:51:14

Wow.

Speaker B: 00:51:15

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:51:16

What a. What a great.

You know, I want to give him a high five because there's a lot of people that don't get that level of support from inside the walls of their own home. So you've got something really special here. So high five, Derek. Good for you, man. All right, let's. Let's switch up a couple of things.

I'm going to show you something on screen. I want you to answer honestly, and we're going to do this twice, but I want to start with this one first.

Speaker B: 00:51:41

Why am I scared?

Speaker A: 00:51:42

Matt, you shouldn't be scared at all. No, no. This.

Speaker B: 00:51:45

All.

Speaker A: 00:51:45

This all ties in. This all ties in.

Speaker B: 00:51:47

Oh, good. All right.

Speaker A: 00:51:48

u do you see? This image from: 2017

Speaker B: 00:51:52

Oh, my gosh. Where did you even find that? How did you even get that? Oh, my goodness.

Speaker A: 00:52:05

When you look at this woman, this version of Angela, what do you see?

Speaker B: 00:52:10

I see a mom with a bunch of little kids trying to start a business in a new town again. But I also see that photo was taken by a friend that I had met. She was a band mom, so I was a band mom. She was a band mom.

We connected and found out that she was also a photographer there in Southern California. And so she came over and we just traded and played and took photos. So it. It brings a lot back, just because of where I was at that time. Oh, man.

My kids were all so close in age. We had five teenagers at once. Yeah. So it was very. It was a difficult time, but also a good time. Right.

Because I got to see my kids as they growing and maturing and becoming young adults. And then that photo makes me think of my friend and how it connected and building community wherever I go, which has been such a blessing. So. Yeah.

I cannot believe you did that to me, Matt.

Speaker A: 00:53:25

Covid. Right. This is around: 2021

What do you see in this one?

Speaker B: 00:53:44

So this one, again, the first thing that I think of is my friend who took that photo. So that photo was taken by Michelle Bishop. I don't know if you know her.

So I had gone to her house to create an image that I actually ended up submitting to the Portrait Masters contest. She was a model for me. And then afterwards, she was like, you Know what? I just. I really want to photograph you.

So she was needing some help with lighting at the time, and so I was helping her, like, tweak it and, you know, make sure that she was getting all her settings right. And when she showed me the final image, I was stunned because there's no makeup, there's no styling. I hadn't even brushed my hair.

I'm not even kidding you.

I had just, like, combed my hands through my hair real quick because she had created such a safe space for me, and she had kind of drawn that fierceness out of me. I felt so powerful when I saw that image, and I could not believe I had never seen myself quite like that before.

Like, how did you find you are choosing these images that are. So how did you do this?

Speaker A: 00:55:05

I'm a magician, really. It comes down to I try to do my research in ways that I have a vision of you in my head. I see images online.

I want to see if the image that I have and the things that I'm thinking match up with what's in your head.

But I think it's always interesting to look back at images that we've either had taken of us or that we've taken in the past and recognize in the moment what has changed and what hasn't. How proud are we for where we've come from? What were we going through then versus what we're going through now?

I just love hearing these stories, right? And there's no right or wrong. You could be like, oh, that was a shitty photo. I can't stand the way that I looked. Right?

And that'd be totally fine, too. But every time I've shown someone a picture, this feeling washes over them of nostalgia and romance and just deep emotion.

Regardless of when in life I show the picture, and I just love. I love hearing that. I love hearing the hope that you had. And I love. I love all the energy that you brought.

And the second picture, specifically, I saw this when I. When I found it. I was like, that's the most dramatic photo that I've ever seen of you. Right?

And I'm used to the big smiles and the hugs and the laugh and just keeping all that energy up. And when I see you just blue, stealing it, you know, and just being very dramatic. It's. It's. It's. It's jarring to the pattern in my brain, right?

And I really wanted to hear what you felt about that, especially since it was like, a year after everything went haywire. So. Thank you for walking me through that.

We've, we've talked about a lot of the mental challenges, we've talked a lot about the workflow challenges and some of the challenges that we've had with clients. One of the bigger challenges that I'm noticing with a lot of creatives these days, this comes from conversations and things that I see online.

The narrow, spicy part of me picks out patterns and trends. Right. It's very easy for me to spot.

And one of the things that happens in our culture is that we're constantly trying to be productive, that we're constantly thinking we've got to create, we've got to create, we've got to put more out. I'm. I'm putting out photos. You also have to put out video. I'm putting out video. You also have to put out courses. You've put out courses.

Now you've got to open your own university and education platform. Right. There's never an end to it. Where do you sit when it comes to productivity? How do you deal with it?

What do you set up in your mind as being productive according to your standards? And on those weeks where you don't feel like being productive, what does productivity look like?

Speaker B: 00:58:07

So for me, and this is more recent as I've been doing this miracle warning, but what I've learned is that the most important, important thing as far as being productive is self care. Like, I have to force myself to do the things that are going to make me mentally, emotionally and socially healthy.

The physical part, for some reason, I hate exercising so much. Like, give me a surfboard and I will surf all day. Right. Give me a dance class, let's go. I'm there.

But just exercising just to exercise is the bane of my existence.

So that one I struggle with, but it's forcing myself to do the things that I know are going to make me healthy, even though I don't really feel like doing it. Right. Yeah. So that's number one is I make sure that that is top priority.

And then after that happens, if I'm in a mental space where I just cannot move past that, I've done that and I'm productive. Right.

If I'm in a mental space where it's like, okay, this is hard, but I'm coming out of it, or I'm just getting down into the low, so I'm not rock bottom yet.

Okay, then I can force myself, all right, then productivity today is going to be also getting these three top priorities done, whether that's taking out the trash or emailing my client or creating a reel or something, right? Then if I'm in the healthy headspace where I'm like, I don't want to do it, but I can. I'm capable. I'm doing okay. Like, mentally, I'm capable.

So even though I don't want to, then it's like, all right, so now today, I'm going to force myself to do 5 to 10 of these tasks that I know are important.

And the biggest thing, the biggest shift that I have found in doing this miracle morning is that rather than focusing on the things that are urgent, so the things that have to get done right now, I've been focusing on the things that are most important. So I know that my mental health is going to suffer if I do not meditate in the morning.

And even though I have this text from somebody that needs to get responded to because they're waiting for an answer, I am going to mute my phone and I am going to do my meditation first, and then I will get to the urgent things. And that shift has been huge for me and for just feeling like. Because you can be productive, right? You can climb a ladder. Climb a ladder.

Climb a ladder, Climb a ladder, and then realize that ladder. So leaning against a known wall.

So we have to decide not what's most urgent, but what's most important, and then choose to make steps towards whatever is most important and do what you can and then give yourself grace when you can't. That's kind of how I'm living, I think.

Speaker A: 01:01:11

You know, but I. I think there's something.

There's a subtext in there that's really important, which is we believe that productivity means giving things to others and not prioritizing ourselves. We believe that productivity is output, output, output, rather than taking care of what happens to the things that are input into our lives.

Meaning, are we getting enough sleep? Are we disassociated, or disconnecting enough to give our brain a little bit of rest? Right? Exercise. And believe me, sister, I'm right there with you.

I can't stand it myself, but I know that I'm going to feel better after I do it.

The interesting thing is that we're always taught, and I think this is part of that rise of the guru culture where you have to do it this way if you want to succeed. No, you have to do it this way if you want to succeed, is that exercise has to look a certain way.

And if you're not a CrossFit athlete, then you're doing it wrong. For me, I like to Walk my dog. I. I like to walk my dog and watch her have her social media time by sniffing grass and, you know, whatever.

I like to watch that because it takes me out of everything and that is productive. That is productivity and reset for me.

And I think we just need to get away from this feeling that productivity means something output online that we're giving, giving, giving, giving, giving and forgetting to give to ourselves. I love that you have this daily ritual and that the morning miracle. Was that Hal Elrod. Is that his name? Was that the author?

Speaker B: 01:02:53

I honestly, I would have to look it up. I have no idea.

Speaker A: 01:02:57

Popped up. Like I could totally be confusing. Sorry, Hal, if you didn't write that.

But I feel like, you know, having these morning rituals is so important to not only get your mind right, but to set the tone for the rest of the day.

Shit's gonna go off the rails, but if you have a strong warning, you can pretty much defeat the chaos that comes later because you've already built this suit of armor in your mind about, you know, today's gonna be a great day.

You also mentioned in there reels, and we were talking before I pressed record about how much I'm envious of your ability to create reels and put them out consistently. And it's not this kind of thing where I just record a conversation then cut it up and it out.

You're actually putting thought into the reels and creating things and engaging people.

How does that video creation with you being primarily a photographer and an educator, how does videography and now doing that content creation fit into your flow? Do you just do it when you can or do you have a process for it?

Speaker B: 01:04:04

Well, I would love to say that once a month I batch create everything and then I schedule it. But you know, I am not that organized. So basically I try to force myself to do it a couple times a week.

And I know people are like, well, you shouldn't post on 5 o' clock on a Saturday and you should only post on, you know, whatever. But for me it's like I, when I have time, I make a reel and when I'm done making the reel, I post the reel.

So if that's at 1am, it's posted at 1am if that's at 6am, it's posted at 6am like people are going to see it or they're not going to see it. It's not the be all, end all of my business. It's something that I do to as a creative outlet and to create a little bit of Traction.

And I just try not to sweat the small stuff too much, you know, I do.

Speaker A: 01:05:00

And I think this is where I'm seeing a lot of people move towards. We're so exhausted by the hustle, we're so exhausted by the getting should all over ourselves, right?

We should be doing this and we should be doing that and you should be successful, but you're not because you're not doing seven reels three times a day every day of the week for the rest of your life. Everybody's burned out from thinking that way.

And I'm noticing more and more people unplugging, which to me all that indicates is no one really gives a. Except for the people selling ads on the platform and they're taking your videos for that. I like that you use them to engage.

I like that you use them to educate.

And we had spoken about you, you'd mentioned something about seeing my videos years ago about doing the educational stuff in the studio and you know, you're looking at the same thing.

Do you find yourself having these educational videos showing the behind the scenes that people are coming to you and saying, wow, I loved seeing inside your studio or I saw Cheryl's photo shoot and thought it was amazing.

Do you find that you get traction from your audience, your in person audience, not some person in Denmark somewhere that just happened to like your video. Are you getting good traction with the people that are your clients?

Speaker B: 01:06:27

Yes. And I think that is the key right there that you said in person.

Because I will put, you know, I put these things out semi regularly and I'll get a lot of comments or whatever, whatnot on it, but then it's not until I see people in person. And then that's when someone says, oh, actually I saw that video you did and that was really cool.

And I've been thinking about booking a shoot, but I've been super nervous. And that's when it's like, oh well, let's do it. Let's get you on the calendar, right? You can put out whatever you want online over and over and over.

But if you're not connecting with people in person, it's never going, it's never going to be enough. It's never going to actually amount to much because you have to see them in person.

You have to be, have that real connection in order for it to finally. What's the word for it? To convert, I guess to, to transfer from just someone hitting the like button to you know what? I think I want this experience.

Speaker A: 01:07:28

What's your, what's your favorite way of connecting with people? Is it through online ads? Is it going to band performance and you're talking to other parents there? Is it going online?

Is it going to networking meetings? What's your favorite way to connect with people? Because you do it so easily.

Speaker B: 01:07:47

My favorite way or the most effective way?

Speaker A: 01:07:49

Oh sure. Split it up, Split it up.

Speaker B: 01:07:53

My favorite way of connecting is photography related events. Yeah, I love our photography people. I love our creatives. I love the energy.

I love being able to talk all the gear nonsense that nobody else around me understands. I love being able to just feed off the energy. Like anytime I'm in any kind of photography related event, we're always grabbing someone.

Like Erica Lipp and I, we were at WBI last year and we just went to the corner and started photographing each other. Right. Like wonderful. That energy is just so fun. So that's my favorite way. Is that super effective?

It's effective for my mental health maybe not so much for the business. Right. Because you know, they're my peers, they're not my clients. For the most part, effective is just getting out in the community.

I photograph my daughter's boyfriend because my youngest just graduated, so I now no longer have any kids in high school, but her boyfriend is in his senior year. So I'll photograph the high school football team for them and then donate the photos.

And so then I get to chat with people on the sidelines or chat with the parents when I'm talking. You know, they'll talk to me about the photos or whatever. I connect with people at church activities. I try to, I do go to some networking things.

That's not my favorite way, but it is definitely an important way, especially for the headshots and branding type of thing. But yeah, it's just forcing yourself to get out and meet people in person. And I know people say that. Well, how do you do that?

Well, you have to find what works for you because not everyone is going to want to go meet people at a football game. But that's one area where I thrive.

Not everyone is going to want to go to the Chamber of commerce, but maybe that's something that works for you because you focus on branding. So. So it's just find any way that you can see and speak and have a meaningful conversation with a human being in person.

Speaker A: 01:10:07

It's very important and I don't do it enough. And I'll be the first to admit it is.

I often sit here and I stay in my own head and I stare into a camera and I talk to Essentially myself, clearly you're a planner. We're getting to the end of the year and it's usually a time of reflection and planning. Right?

ght now at the end of October: 2025

Speaker B: 01:10:44

Think the biggest thing for me is I am realizing I need to be more consistent.

It's really sweet that you said I'm consistent with marketing, but that is actually one thing and one area where I do not feel consistent in because I will market, market, market, get busy. And then because I'm busy with clients, I let marketing go by the wayside.

And then my calendar dries up, so I'm like, oh shoot, I need to market again. And so then, then I'll market, market, market and get busy. And it's just this constant cycle.

And so for this year, I have kind of worked out some tasks that I brainstormed. What does a CEO do? And how can I be the CEO in my business? Instead of just being the creative, I want to try to be more of the CEO.

And so hopefully we'll see how this goes.

But my plan and hope is that I'll be able to insert time and schedule time, being more intentional with how I spend my time and making sure that I am doing those CEO tasks throughout the year.

Instead of I'm going to be the creative, creative, creative, and then I'm going to be the business person and then the creative and then the business person somehow find a way to kind of get this creative business, you know, constant. Instead of three weeks of creating and then three weeks of panic marketing, we're.

Speaker A: 01:12:17

Just laser focused on client and then marketing and then client and then marketing. We haven't necessarily built the systems into our own world to be consistent and finding not balance, but harmony. It's like, right, you're.

You're band geek, right, like me.

And so if you're only listening to the drum line all the time, you forget about the horn section, you forget about all the movements that you have to be making, and so on and so forth. But then when you're sitting in the stands and you're looking at this entire thing happen, you see the harmony of why it's such a great production.

Instagram and see last post,: 2018

You're pretty consistent. So give yourself a little bit of credit there. But in terms of planning forward, intentionality in the calendar is huge.

It's something that I've been trying to work in a little bit myself. Plan that morning ritual again, plan the exercise, do things that prioritize myself being able to add those things in.

As you look at 26, are you already planning new coursework, new workshops? What does that look like? And do you feel like it's ramping up? Or do you found, like you found that harmony in what you're doing?

You just want to do more of it?

Speaker B: 01:13:55

Well, first of all, I love how you say harmony rather than balance. Because you're right. It's. You can only focus on one thing at a time. So there's no way to have a perfect balance. It is a harmony.

And then that being said, I don't know that I'll ever find that harmony. I feel like it's always a scramble or I'm down.

And I think that that probably partly is the struggle that I have with my mental health, but at the same time, I'm still gonna make it happen. Yeah, like, like the miracle morning says, you choose your affirmation and then you say, why is failure not an option? It's not.

way through, I think June of: 2026

Not like planned planned, but I've marked out. I'm like, okay, this month I'm going to do a photography meetup for my local community just for fun.

And then here this month I'm going to do a workshop.

And these months I'm going to do an eight week course and just kind of mapping it out because I also work conferences, so I have to put those in and make sure that I'm giving myself time and space and all that kind of stuff. But. But yeah, it's. Will there ever be an actual harmony? I don't know. But we're gonna keep trying and see what we can make.

Speaker A: 01:15:30

As I try to land this plane, there's. God, there's so many tangents that I want to go down, but I try to end on something a bit more philosophical.

And I love that we've wrapped this entire conversation around this miracle morning of yours. Right. And how it's really filled you with so much desire and passion and harmony and has allowed you to build the business that you want.

How are you defining success today versus how you define success when you first started?

Speaker B: 01:16:10

when I tell you this, but in: 2015

I had felt the calling to become a photographer for several years and hadn't done it. I was afraid, like, I didn't have anywhere to learn. I didn't have proper resources.

But I felt the calling, but just never took any steps towards making it happen. And then I happened to visit with an old high school friend that I hadn't seen in a decade, and he says, hey, how's it going? What's.

What are you up to? What's life like?

And I wanted to say, oh, I'm a photographer, but I couldn't because it was not honest, it wasn't genuine, because I had not done anything to make it a reality. And so when I came home from that trip, I was like, you know what?

Never again will I want to say what I am or what I am doing and not be able to because I haven't taken action. So I am going to make this happen whether or not it's good. Like, was I a good photographer in the beginning? Oh, hell no. I was awful, right?

But I did it. I did it. I got a camera and I started looking up books and online courses and doing everything I could to figure it out.

And so to me, and maybe that's. Maybe that's why I'm not fabulously wealthy, because I don't focus on that part of it.

But for me, my metric of success is that I'm still going, is that even though there are weeks, sometimes I cannot barely function, I'm still doing it. I'm still up and moving and making those steps one little baby step at a time.

Speaker A: 01:18:21

How can people connect best with you? We've all got websites and Instagram and many chats and whatnot.

What's the best way for people to get in touch with you so they can not only see your work, but. But then inquire about mentoring or some of the coursework that you have. How do people get in touch with you?

Speaker B: 01:18:40

Instagram is probably the easiest place right now. I do have a website, however. I just recently switched from Squarespace to Zenfolio. And man, rebuilding your website from scratch. It is killing me.

It's taking me so Long. So right now, the website is very. It basically says, under construction, go look me up on Instagram.

Speaker A: 01:19:04

Fair enough.

Speaker B: 01:19:06

Yeah. But, yeah, Instagram is probably where I'm the most active. And if you send me a DM there, I'll definitely see it there.

Speaker A: 01:19:15

That's Angela Anderson portrait.

Speaker B: 01:19:16

Right.

Speaker A: 01:19:17

Right down there in the. In the lower third.

Speaker B: 01:19:18

You got perfect.

Speaker A: 01:19:19

Look at me.

Speaker B: 01:19:20

Exactly. Thank you.

Speaker A: 01:19:21

Doing all sorts of good stuff. I know this has been. I'm so glad that we had a chance to do this. And, I mean, it's. It's one of the things that I say over and over and over.

I have a wealth of friends that I should not have. I just have the most amazing people in my life, and you're one of them.

And when I'm ever at a conference, especially WPPI or Portrait Masters, and I see you, I light up. Because that, like I said before, that's the energy that you bring to everybody.

And I'm so grateful that you're kind of in my orbit and that we get to have this conversation. It means the world to me. It really, really does. So thank you for spending your entire day with me. I appreciate this.

Speaker B: 01:20:04

was at TPM, I believe it was: 2019

You were helping managing minds. And your energy when I met you was so real and so authentic, and I kind of felt a sadness from you, but, like, you were.

Like, something was heavy on you, and yet here you were giving and, like, making everybody smile, and just everyone who met you felt like you saw them. Like, you looked at them and you saw them for who they were.

I felt that because I was there kind of feeling a little bit out of my element, like, here's all these people who are such good photographers, and I'm still feeling like I'm learning. And you just made it seem like we're all just here. We're all just humans and we're all hanging out and everything's all good.

And every time I have met with you, every time I've seen you in person, it has been that same energy of I feel seen. I feel like you are real and you care and there's not a fake bone in your body.

And I just really appreciate you and everything you bring to our community. So thank you and thank you for this opportunity.

Speaker A: 01:21:44

You know, I wasn't gonna cry, but now you got me, man. It's dusty in here. Oh, thank you for saying that. And it's. It's funny that you call that out. Very difficult time at that point.

So if that's what you saw and that's what you got from it, then it makes it all worthwhile. Thank you. Thank you for saying that thing. It's the reason why I'm here, and it's the reason why I love doing this.

So I'm going to stop there before I put my foot in my mouth and say something that could totally throws off that whole image of me again. I'm so thankful for you, and I'm going to catch you on the road. Hopefully I'll see you at one of the conferences coming up.

You're going to be at WPPI or Imaging or Shutterfest or any of them? All of them.

Speaker B: 01:22:29

I'm going to be at wppi. It's pretty much the only one I have time to fit in right now.

Speaker A: 01:22:36

It's going to be a big one this year. Going to be a big one, so. All right, then. We'll make time to sit down and at least have a chat while we're there. Thank you, Angela.

I can't wait to see you again.

Speaker B: 01:22:47

Awesome. Thanks, Matt.

Speaker A: 01:22:48

All right.