Ep. 038 - Paulina Gwaltney: Styling Made Simple

Matt Stagliano: 00:00:39

So I have a question for you. How much of your work is about what you create and how much is about the mindset behind it?

Because today's guest, Paulina Gwaltney, has figured out that balance better than most.

Pauline is one of those rare people who can take a handful of fabric, a stapler or a little polish ingenuity and somehow create pure magic down in Texas.

She's a master stylist, a photographer, and the kind of person who reminds you that creativity isn't about how much gear you own, it's about what you do with what you've got. So in this episode we talk about a ton of things like rebranding and downsizing and the importance of slowing down during a shoot.

Paulina shares her story from running Paulina Gautney Photography to launching Stuka Atelier, a change that's allowed her to focus on her art while prioritizing her family and her sanity. We also get into the reality of the photography industry.

Why expensive gear isn't the answer, why some photographers over complicate things, and why authenticity always wins. And if you're headed to WPPI in Las Vegas, you're in luck.

Pauline is bringing her signature styling skills to one of the shooting bays, collaborating with several other artists and vendors and sharing some of that hands on magic with you. So if you're the type of artist or photographer or just someone trying to find the right balance in your work and life, this episode is for you.

I think you're really going to love what Paulina has to say. So now on with the show.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:02:31

Foreign.

Matt Stagliano: 00:02:36

We're coming up on WPPI again. And are you prepped? Are you ready to go? Are you all set? I know you've got everything going in a booth there. What's going on with wppi?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:02:48

So like with wppi, I kind of, I'm collabing with styling to take off new branch in a business I can. I don't have money for marketing, so I'm like, okay, how can I get traction without spending money?

So I'm giving my time and a little bit of money because I have to buy all the costumes and book the models and all that stuff. But I'm providing styling for a vendor, a friend of mine. And the wppi, we decided to have two guys and one girl.

So it's guy heavy and I'm styling them beyond what has been styled so far. You know, it's either super girly guys, very feminine, or it's very masculine or like a pirate.

There's nothing between or maybe like a turtleneck, jeans. There's no verity for male models and shooting bays.

So I'm like, okay, I want to make it more as a shooting bay for photographing masculine men in creative way, like you would do for branding.

Matt Stagliano: 00:03:49

So.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:03:50

So if you get a musician, painter, writer, how are you going to style them? Because it's not a, you know, tie and the blazer that goes way beyond.

Because you have to style them in their personality and what they do and how they communicate with clients. So this is how I'm styling those. Tomorrows will have a morning outfit and afternoon outfit.

There will be some jewelry on them because, you know, just. Just to get little blank to bring attention to the shooting bay.

I want people to come by and see beautiful backdrops because that vendor is selling about backdrops and I want them to stay. So Ilana not only can chat about her backdrops, but I want them to stay so I can chat to them about my styling, about my styling services.

I had amazing response during imaging. It was really bizarre for me because I wasn't prepared for any kind of response. Like, I was like, okay, people will take photos.

They won't even give me a credit. They're just going to pass by.

But when I did a presentation of wraparound gauze dress and then my paper dress, and then Ilana, same vendor, backdrops gallery, actually gave me a mic and she's like, now you talk. First of all, I love talking to the mic. I was making fun of people walking by the booth. Like, I was just teasing them and getting attention.

It was so fun. Like, I was interacting. There was some sad people. I'm like, don't be sad. Come photograph with us. Come hang out. With the mic.

I was being able to export, explain a lot of things I do without thinking, like how I make a pleat and why you have to give a little bit structure to things. So I would carry that to wppi and I will try to communicate with people how I style and what I do, why I do what I do and all that stuff.

So it'll be really fun. I know it's a different crowd because imaging is tech heavy. When WPPI is more pretty, how it looks, how. How you know how the flow of the image.

When imaging is like, what lens did you use? What equipment did you use? People in the imaging that were coming to the shooting bay, like, oh, what lights are using, what focal length?

They were asking all those details and we provided them, but I noticed that they were super hungry for Styling, because no one ever talked to them a lot, so it was really interesting. Those kind of show a lot of men how to make a dress. I'm like, you know, this is how you wrap, and that's it.

And you have a dress, you don't need much.

Matt Stagliano: 00:06:14

And I think this is where your superpower really comes in, right? So as a great photographer, as someone that styles, as someone that is as cheap as they come when it.

When it comes to buying it, you buy a lot of shit, but you try not to pay a lot for it. And I know that, right?

Having seen you up close, worked with you while you were styling, I didn't realize how bad I sucked at it until I saw you work, right? And it has nothing to do.

Well, I'm sure it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm a guy, but two, Like, a lot of people just don't know how to style, right? So when I'm in the studio and I have someone come in for personal branding or for fine art or whatever, I might have an idea in mind.

But if it goes beyond that idea, I'm screwed, right? Because I don't know necessarily, like, all right, well, if the dress isn't fitting, you're great this way. Well, just take it off.

We'll do artistic nudes. Like, I have no idea, right?

So watching you be able to take a pillowcase and some crepe paper and a stapler, and then suddenly there's an evening gown, I have no idea what goes into that. Tell me a little bit about. About your process in terms of going from photographer to stylist. Or did you do styling before photography?

How did this kind of like, how did you find this weird little knit?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:07:40

You know, realizing my skills took me a while because I have. When I picked up the camera, I pick up my staple at the same time. It was 12 years ago when I stumbled upon soup, rice, and flowers and the tube.

At the time, it was flowers and the tool, like, everywhere. Every photo shoot, it was flowers and the tool shooting into the light. Oh, my God. It was just so. I was like, oh, my God. So pretty. It was just pretty.

So I'm like, okay, I got one bulk of gray tulle, because gray looks fantastic on any skin tone.

Matt Stagliano: 00:08:17

Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:08:18

I'm like, I cannot afford all the colors. I will have gray. And I paint my poly boards gray because gray looks good on every skin. So when I pick up the camera, I very naturally.

For me, I'm like, I'm going to make things. And I starting Making things as part who I am. I grew up poor. I grew up in communism.

I grew up with my grandmother who came from World War I, World War II, where you were forced to make your own stuff. And she taught me how to make things, make something out of nothing. You know, take old sheet and diet and make a dress.

Take old sweater and cut it out, add something and make something new. So back in the time, it was. It wasn't being like eco friendly. It was just necessary. Was necessary to.

If you wanted something different, you had to figure it out. So I carried that into my photography and I kept doing it. And I just, like realized I actually styled my first PPA in North Carolina 12 years ago.

And it was really funny going to imaging because my friend, a friend of mine, he's absolutely amazing photographer. He started in film, he. With film in Marine Corps. And when he retired, he got the little studio in Richlands, North Carolina. And I loved John.

He taught me so much and about photography. But I would come in and we would work together. And he was on the board of PPA North Carolina. He's like, you have to come in and style a model.

And I did, and I didn't even get a credit. I just was. I'm like, okay. I would just, you know, put some flowers so, so, so too. So natural. So easy. Didn't even think about it.

And for 12 years, I have been stuck styling my shoots. I have been styling other people's shoots. I just. It got him getting more and more intense. It's like I have been doing it more and more and more.

I'm like, okay, I'm really good at it. I'm like, not. It's not only styling, but you have to understand the styling is part of the whole process.

It's not like you put a dress and like, oh, we can put her on any backdrop on any person on any story. You have styling a story, a backdrop and lighting and posing. Everything has to align because, like, I make some dresses.

You should not shoot setting because they will look all the. Lose all the charms. Like, it doesn't look pretty. I tried it. It's like, it's. It's better for standing.

I make some dresses which look fantastic lounging down on stretch poses. There are some dresses which will look fantastic when you sit down.

And there's some costumes which will not make any sense if you don't use particular lighting and particular backdrop. So, like, I take every aspect into when I make in my mind a final image. Like, I. I imagine it like right now. I'm.

I actually got hired to styled for a stage for a friend of mine, Julie Gallery for Fuji presentation with Westcott. And she's like, I wonder. I will be using purple background, and I want something airy and I want something elegant. I'm like, short.

Short dress, long dress. She's like, long dress. I'm like, so I will ask. It's like an interview. Then I styled stuff for Marta Ponska for her workshop and her presentation.

I'm like, what do you want? She's like, oh, maternity. I'm like, do you want a classic maternity or you want something weird? She's like, I want something weird. So we kind of.

I kind of figure out where they're at. And then I will sit down and bring couple ideas and pitch it to them, like, what you want?

Because bottom line, if I'm styling for someone else, it's not about me. I have to create the baby and I have to give it away, which is so painful. I'm struggling.

My ego is just suffering because I'm creating those beautiful looks and I'm giving away to people and they will take all creative credit. And I'm like, it's okay. I signed up for it. I want it. There it is. I need. I'm working through it right now. I'm like, my baby.

And, like, it's there, but it's not mine.

Matt Stagliano: 00:12:08

You need to make two while you're doing it. You make one for them and one for you.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:12:13

Yeah, but it's. When you style. I clutch myself. It's like 100% a stylist. I cannot, like, divide it. I'm trying. Trying to divide. Like, I was silent.

And then I will hop off in five minutes and I will be a photographer. Posing, lighting, little story, you know, just added little GE gestures to make something out of the image that it feels like part of the story.

Matt Stagliano: 00:12:34

Sure.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:12:35

I. It's so hard to jump off of it because I'm like, oh, I need to staple this. Oh, I need to move the hair. Hair on. I. It's. It's a process.

I'm learning to kind of merge them together so I can work with them. But it's very. For me, it's like kind of divided. When I'm styling, I'm styling when I'm photographing or I'm photographing. So, yeah.

So my biggest, I think, advantage of being stylist is that I'm a photographer.

Matt Stagliano: 00:12:56

There are parallels. Right.

So as a photographer, you're looking at the details of the light and the composition and all the stuff that goes into taking a picture independent of the subject and the styling. On the styling side, you're looking at the details. Hey, does that fit in her armpit the right way? Right. Is the color for the skin tone correct?

Is there enough going on with the hair and whatnot? And you're not looking at it necessarily as a photographer, you're looking at it as a stylist.

So when you mix those two worlds together, your brain must be on fire where you're trying to go back and forth between the two.

But at the same time, do you feel like it being a stylist has helped your photography or do you feel like being a photographer has helped your styling? It sounds like you've been a stylist way long, like intrinsically a stylist way longer than a photographer.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:13:49

Yeah, I think styling helped my photography.

Matt Stagliano: 00:13:52

Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:13:53

Because my work was always a little bit different. I got criticized for my work many, many times. And it's okay. I caused emotions. That's what you are supposed to do.

But it definitely made my work different. And I, I don't have much following. I'm not out there. I don't have, you know, 10,000, 100,000 followers.

But I know that people took my ideas and made their own.

So I, I know I made, yeah, styling helped my photography because that visual eye on what's pretty and interesting carry over to what I need to put in a frame. I'm like, okay, if I want to make portrait of this man interesting, I, maybe I should add some air into his hair because he has beautiful hair.

And that's how I created one of those most significant male portraits in my body of my work. Friend of mine, Rodrigo, is a native American. He has beautiful black hair.

And I just, he just sat in jeans and regular shirt and his turquoise jewelry and I put air in that and the direction of the hair is direction he's looking. So everything is just time perfectly. But yeah, styling to photography and photography is still like limping for me.

I'm like, when it comes to like ratio and stuff, I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Matt Stagliano: 00:15:08

And it's funny you mention that because I'm the same way, right. Self taught. I know enough to be dangerous only because I've been doing this for 13, 14 years. Right.

So I know enough to be dangerous and probably know more than some. But there are intrinsically things in photography that I have no idea. It's just because it's not part of me, Right. I don't do lighting ratios.

I do what looks good to my artistic eye. Right. And while it may not be classically or technically correct, quote unquote correct, I like what I create. Right.

So I don't get into the weeds on photography technique a whole lot. If you're producing stuff that you love, produce the stuff you love. There's plenty of room for it in this world right now.

You said something a minute ago that I wanted to. I wanted to jump into only because I know you and your honesty.

You said a few minutes ago that you received a lot of criticism for some of the work or a lot of comments. Right. Two parts. Two part question here. One, how do you handle criticism? And two, what do you do afterwards with it?

It's very hard as artists sometimes to hear criticism. How do you handle it?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:16:18

I will cry, and I will write to all my friends, send screenshots. Oh, I'm petty. I am so petty. I'm so petty. I'm so petty. I'm like, look at the scarf. Who he think he is, who she thinks that she is, this and that.

I will. I'll do all of that. I will do. This is my. This is my close circle of friends.

Matt Stagliano: 00:16:38

Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:16:38

I will vent. I will give myself room to get angry.

Um, I don't withhold emotions because I grew up in very traumatic home and I was not allowed to express my emotions and feelings. So now I'm like, I will get angry. I used to hold to those feelings for a very long time when I went off.

Then I will have conversation in my head what I would tell them, and I will go on there, like, if I would go on their Facebook, and I'm like, oh, look at your crooked teeth. And, like, I will do all those scenarios so that all those emotions will roll through that. The Mets thing. I'm not perfect. I. It's. I'm. It's rough.

So this is my reaction, like, initial reaction. I'm just gonna be like, oh, my God, this is. Because this is my work. This is my baby. This is. You're criticizing my soul.

Matt Stagliano: 00:17:24

Yeah. He called my baby ugly.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:17:26

Yeah. And it's hurt. It always hurts. And I don't believe that if someone. If someone's like, oh, I don't care. Yes, you care. You just don't want to admit it.

So I do care at my mom about my work.

I always keep tabs if it's like a public comment, if it's connected to my client, because if it is, I will actually react because I do not allow anyone. So I'm Joe Schmo coming in and bringing negative emotions to and carrying it to the client or even model I work, I don't, I don't allow it.

Especially if I know their backstory and if they're dealing with self esteem issues.

Matt Stagliano: 00:18:00

Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:18:01

So after that my question is to myself, well, what I'm going to do with it? Like what's, what's the plan? General rule is people don't change their mind, they die. So you cannot really change someone's mind.

You can argue with them. And it's. I have always temptation of being that righteous. Like I think this and this and you are this and. And they will respond.

I'm like oh, and you said this and. But this is not it. And you know, pulling all that energy into war on the keyboard.

And I ask myself what I want to do, like where I want to put that energy. So first of all I want to put that energy to happy. So I need to make conscious decision at some point to let it go.

Sometimes it's shorter period of time, sometimes longer. Depends how I got hurt. And I will just try to let it go in my own. Everyone is different. There is no rule.

Like people tell like you need to do this because this is toxic. Yeah.

Sometimes I will mop on it for a week or two or three and I will bring, I will catch myself bringing the same issues over and over again to my friends. I'm like, okay, I'm stuck. This is like running a hamster and I'm not getting anywhere.

And instead of thinking about next project or people want to connect or you know, reading a book, I'm sitting there like this is where I'm will pull away. I'm like, okay, what would happen if you would said that that would counter, counteract. They wouldn't change mind.

People seeing your action would think that you are crazy. You're crazy would come out. They will say she's hysterical, she's hormonal, she's PMSing, yada yada. It wouldn't do any good.

Another thing I believe, when you are attacked or criticize that person who's commenting, they want your attention, they want other people attention. If you give them energy, they will feast on it. But if you don't, they die. That part died. You ignore them.

The most powerful thing you can do to some human being is ignore them.

Matt Stagliano: 00:20:07

There's something similar that happened recently to me. I had posted a video, became a little bit more controversial than I intended and I got all these comments right.

Most of them being like cool video I might disagree a little bit, but here's my take. Perfectly fine. I'm always up for a good conversation, as long as it's respectful. Right.

I'm never going to change your mind, you're never going to change mine. But we can respect where we're at and just kind of try to see each other's point of view, right? Totally cool. But when people.

When people come in and they just kind of blast away at me and, you know, they're like, I need to be right, and you can't possibly ever be right, I like just giving the little laughing emoji because it's confusing to them. I don't like it. I don't ignore it. Little laughing emoji.

Because what I try to do is, like, all right, I want you to be confused for a minute because you don't know how I'm reacting to this. And I'm not going to engage with someone that doesn't respect the art of conversation. Right. If you want to be right, you can be right. That's fine.

But for me, my best conversations have always come from people that have a completely different view than I do, because we can sit there and have that conversation.

It's far too easy to have a keyboard in front of you and be able to criticize someone else's artwork or be able to criticize their styling or their photography. And you see a lot of this in the photography world, for sure.

Like, you should have had them centered instead of on the left third of the frame, because, you know, the classical rule is this. And you can go shove it up your ass. Like, I like the way that this looks. Right? Yeah. So that always. That always makes me laugh about the.

The criticism. I'm glad that, one, you're petty and you let that out and you admit it. That's awesome.

Two, like, you also have that support system of your friends to be like, all right, am I crazy here? Or is this really something I should get upset about?

Or, all right, I need to be snapped out of this feedback loop that I'm in, and I just keep circling the drain. Lift me up out of it. Right? Tell me where I'm wrong. I need somebody to tell me that I'm not this horrible person, and then I'll be okay.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:22:14

It's okay to be petty. And, like, we. First of all, like, I am so fucking tired of the slogan of be kind. What the fudge? Like, everyone has be kind. No, no, no.

Some people do not deserve. So I. I'm not kind all the time because there's some people who, in my sphere, don't deserve kindness. And I will be petty with them.

I'll be like, karma is a bitch. It got you. The biggest thing, I think, is just that every human has perception and perspective.

Perception is we grow up, you know, like, I grow up without that. So I always have that need in my life to meet men who were responsible. All my male friends are responsible, responsible guys.

My husband is very responsible. So I wanted someone responsible. That's my perception on men. I enjoy company of men who are responsible.

Perspective is that with time, I learn that some responsible men can be dicks too. So you can. You cannot change your perception because this is kind of your wiring.

But perspective, you can step in into someone's shoes and say, well, from your perspective, you are a dick because every single woman in your life was awful to you. And you are kind of projecting. So when I get into the n. Roots of conflict and people criticizing, I think to myself, that person might.

Must be in so much pain and so angry that they took time out their day and sit on a keyboard and criticize me because they are projecting something out of their life.

Matt Stagliano: 00:23:47

And that's a. That's a huge realization to come to. Right? And it's.

For me, that came way later in life than it should have, probably, in terms of me understanding that. But once I did, it released so much from myself, artistically, from me trying to hold a. To a certain standard.

As long as I like what I'm creating, I'm cool with that. And if you don't, that's your. That's your issue. And it's fine that you don't, but it's your issue. And you projecting your.

Onto me doesn't make it like, I have to believe what you say. It doesn't make it real in my world. So that's fine. I wanted to get your thoughts on that.

Only because you're about to be on stage again and you know, and you've got this whole Polish mafia thing that you're rolling with, right? This level of Eastern bloc women that are photographing silence and creating backdrops and, like, doing all this stuff.

I'm like, where did this crew come from? And don't say Poland, because I'm like, I know, but like, every. You guys have this nice little tight community.

Was that something that you have had for years, or did you guys just all find each other randomly?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:24:56

I met Ilona. The backdrop painter.

Matt Stagliano: 00:24:58

Yeah, backdrop gallery. Backdrops gallery is.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:25:02

She's a backdrop artist. She is. So, like, I'm getting WhatsApp videos every single day. How she mixes dyes and layers them. Like every backdrop is like six, seven layers.

It's just ridiculous. She goes to so. Because she loves it so much. Anyway, that gal is equally crazy as I am when it comes to art.

Like we have their own conversation, are so out there.

Matt Stagliano: 00:25:24

She's wonderful.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:25:25

But Ilana has a good friend, Danusha. Danusha is from Poland and she lives in Toronto, Canada as well.

And I met Danusha during one of the conference, I think it was 2pm and we connected, we chatted and we had wonderful connection because the coming from the same background, when you meet in States, it's so easy to connect. Even if in Poland, maybe if we met, we would meet in Poland, we wouldn't connect as much as we connect overseas.

Because you just look for something is similar, familiar in life. So I connected with Danusha and last year she messaged me that Ilana was doing WPPI and she got surprised with quite few.

We're not going to provide that from the platform. And she got caught last minute. And Danusha is like, contact Paulina. Paulina knows some people, maybe she will help.

So I hook up Ilana with not only styling by lighting and I'm like, what you need, I'm driving, I will bring it. Like, I was all in. I didn't know her till I met her on the Expo floor, but she just chatting with her through the phone.

I'm like, you have hardcore core approach to work as I do. Like when we work, you're very similar. Yeah. There is no cutting corners, there's no crying over. You are in pain, you work, you're sad, you work.

And it's kind of. That's how we were raised and grow up. And when we seeing people like crying about things, they're like, whatever. Like, it's just get over it. Just.

Yeah, get over it. Because we, we didn't have a leisure growing up of crying over. There was no option. Like you cry over and you were walking hungry around.

And Ilana and I, we both went very similar life scenarios. So through that, I worked with, with Ilana kind of casually on one of the. The WPPI last year and we really clicked. We worked well together.

And I told her, I'm like, if you need a stylist for the next one, let me know. I really had fun. And she's like, yeah.

So as soon as we go back, I introduced Ilona to my circle and she start, you know, working with other photographers. And I didn't expect her to work with me after wppi. But again, we have hardcore values and the way we work, we work 24 7.

Like, I get messages from her at 6am and I'm messaging her at midnight. I'm like, how about this? Let's do this. How about cutting this backdrop this way? And then I will make this dress with this headpiece.

And it's just like, oh, so, yeah, so that was Ilona. And then Ilona met through a friend of her, Marta Ponsko. And Marta is from Warsaw, Poland.

Marta is just freaking genius when it comes to shaping the body with the light and posing. She's incredible. And yeah, and she's hardcore too. Like, she has two kids, two little kids.

She's a mom, she works with her husband from tiny little apartment. And she, she makes it happen. So I'm like, when I talk with Marta, I'm like, I can trust her because she works so hard.

She will understand my effort because I collaborate with other photographers and they took me for granted because they don't work hard and they don't understand. Like, if you tell me, do you want something? I will give you 45 different options and ask you which one.

And if you say, ah, bring all of them, we'll see if I like it. I will bring all of them, even if I'm not sleeping, because I have to iron, clean, put things together. So that's how Polish mafia was formed.

Matt Stagliano: 00:28:59

It's probably the wrong term to use and probably.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:29:02

Yeah, it's actually the term we are using.

Matt Stagliano: 00:29:05

Is it? Is it really? Yeah. So it's just one of those things where every time I say, I'm like, there's another one, there's another Pauline.

Like, there's another one, there's another alone. Like, what is this? Right. So we got to work together last year after wppi, right? Cause you were off doing your thing. I was off doing my thing.

We met at the, at the workshop you were doing with Johnny. And I got to see you styling in person.

And, you know, this led me to our phone call where you did kind of like a virtual one on one, which for anybody listening, absolutely. Get in touch with Paulina about doing a one on one virtual session so you can get that type of information.

For me, it's solidified that I have no idea what I'm doing, but doing the thing doesn't have to be hard. And that's the wonderful bridge. Right? Because for a lot of photographers, styling is a mystical art. Right.

We might know how to get a pretty dress or put on, you know, an outfit that looks good and we can kind of be like, yeah, that looks good. Doesn't look, but give us a pile of fabric and say, go. Right. It's all going to kind of look the same.

We're going to tie a headband and maybe like a sarong type thing around the body. Right. Tuck it here, nip it there. But it's never going to look like a piece of couture fashion.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:30:25

Yeah.

Matt Stagliano: 00:30:25

And this is the thing that fascinates me about stylists that do it really, really well. Like you.

You're able to take something that most of us would see as a lump or a throwaway or something we could never style with, something we couldn't create art out of. And you're able to do that. And not only are you able to do it, you're able to teach people the process in. In that. Right.

Without giving all your secrets away. I think it behooves a lot of people, even if they're never going to do what you do. I think it gives us a more well rounded base to understand.

Oh, yes, there's way more that goes into styling than just, all right, we're solids and neutrals and come in something comfortable. Right. There's a lot more that goes into it. Especially when you're trying to create artistic looking pieces or certain thematic pieces. Right.

So for you, as you teach people all this stuff virtually and in person and giving these demos and going to conferences, what are the things that you find that people lack the most knowledge in? Is it fear that they can't do it, or is it they just don't know what they don't know about science.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:31:42

We just don't know what they don't know.

Matt Stagliano: 00:31:43

Yeah, it's.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:31:44

I think it's another thing is of kind of 3D creation. So I look at the fabric and I'm like, okay, I can attach this corner here, put the pleat here, put the pleat here. And it started getting a shape.

So it's kind of 3D construction. It's almost like architecture. If you don't have that, it's hard to grab piece of fabric. And I call it like being draped in a curtain.

I see a lot of that. They take the fabric and I drape on the body and it looks like a curtain.

Matt Stagliano: 00:32:13

Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:32:13

So there's no structure.

Matt Stagliano: 00:32:14

Like, you've seen my work, you've seen my styling.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:32:18

No, it's not yours, darling. It's not yours. So I think the biggest thing is People don't know what they don't know. They never pay attention to it.

They were like, oh, I can do that. So I saw that on the during imaging on the demo floor when I was doing the. My gauze dress. Right now my gauze dress is taking off like fire.

I will be actually selling pieces of fabric with clamps during WPPI because every single man there wanted one. Because they can ask model to wear like a bathing suit on there. It's see through, it looks very couture.

One gentleman, he's like, oh, I do a lot of nude work. It would be absolutely fabulous if I could put it on a nude body. I'm like, okay.

So to put on a nude body, you will have to probably have double side tape, attach it in the bag because there is no bra to attach it. I gave him all spiel. He was super excited about it. But it's basically little wraparound dress.

And when I wrapped around it and show it to them and turn around, people I could see click. Which is fantastic. People like, I can totally do that. Which is the point.

Like, I want people to be able to walk away with a skill and then that skill will carry over to confidence of serving the clients and experience that will be provided. Because then you are opening yourself size.

Matt Stagliano: 00:33:33

Free wardrobe and that's huge, right? Because a lot of us get a wardrobe, we might have a studio wardrobe and have things that are in.

Well now we have to buy multiple, small, medium, large, extra large, right? You never know what your clients are going to like or not like.

So now you're buying multiple, spending a ton of money and you might not be using this stuff.

What I find, as if you're using gauze or tool or fabric or whatever, that you're able to be as creative as you want to be with it and it can fit anyone. And that's a huge thing. Especially with so many different body types. Being able to understand how to make that body type look best is.

Is really a skill to have. Now the other question that I wanted to ask you about this is I think from a photography standpoint, right?

And I'll keep going back and forth between photography and styling, but from the photography standpoint, I can look at pretty much anyone's image and I can understand where the. I don't want to say failures because I don't believe in that, but where, where they could have done better or where they nailed it, right?

And there are things, lighting, composition, storytelling, right? Whatever. Whatever the element is that I'm looking for, you can Usually tell, oh, this one definitely deserved an award. And this one.

Eh, you need to work on some things, but you only learn that from through seeing tens of millions of images. And you build that visual literacy in your brain for fashion and styling and all of that.

I don't know how many people really have that literacy to understand, oh, I can take this gauze and turn it into a dress, because I've seen something similar, and now I can extrapolate what that was into the dress, the piece of clothing that I want to make. Do you feel like people need to build up that, even if it's just.

Just flipping through Vogue magazine, or do they just need to rely on their own confidence that I've got this image in my head, I can make this dress? It's really not that hard.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:35:34

No, you need to put work in. You need to definitely work. This is not something which will help. This is a skill. Okay? This is. Anyone can learn it.

I do not believe that styling is really dependable on how creative you are as an artist. It's just learning basic skills. When you learn those basic skills, you will be able to style anyone and everyone.

It may be similar looks, but your clients don't care because it's. It's their look, it's their dress. So. And you. When you style on someone's and you make. You know, I will go back to wrapping a human into a fabric.

You will customize it to their body shape because, like, okay, I. If I put little pinch here and little pinch here, we can see the smallest part of their body.

And I know everyone is about all body positivity, and it's becoming that for me, again, that movement is becoming so toxic right now because, like, body positivity, I'm like, no, some people want to lose weight and want to be slimmer, and that's okay. Don't. Not everyone is on the same plane.

So I have a lot of humans who comments like, I want to look smaller, so I will, you know, pinch here and pinch here, and I can see the smallest part of their body, and they will love it because it makes them look slimmer. So, yes, you can learn that skill. And the best way to learn it is to try it.

So you have to get a human, put a fabric on it, and take your time and take a stapler and stapled here and see how it looks, and staple there and see how it looks. That's how I did it. I have zero sewing. I. I have basic sewings or basic stitch, like doing a curtain on a pillow.

But when it comes to garments, when you start creating structure, I started with staple. I'm like, I staple a pleat here and staple a pleat here, and how's that look? All that fall apart. Okay? That fabric cannot be used with stapler.

I have to use safety pin or maybe even use actual narrow and thread because it's not holding. So I acquire the skills. You are not born naturally with it. And it's. It's something like you have to practice.

When more you practice, the easier it becomes and more naturally will come to you. Like, you. You'll see. Look at the jacket. Like, oh, we can. We actually have a fabric. We can match it and make a skirt.

But until you test it, try it, fail it over and over and over and over again, and then you go into Photoshop and like, oh, if I put the pleat here, I wouldn't have to Photoshop 45 images out of it. And I always say Photoshop is your best friend.

I actually, when I teach styling, I would say the Photoshop is last step, because you can liquefy and change the. The line of the fabric very easy.

Don't stress over it during the photo shoot because you are taking away your happiness and your model or client happiness. You know, just like, oh, that's not working. So, like, just let it go. Just photograph it. Focus on their expression. It looks good.

The dress is good enough. And you can take it into Photoshop and just shape it with like crepe paper dresses. A lot of time that crepe paper is very stretchy tool the same.

And you cannot really hold really tight waist with it because it's. They move and it start just kind of coming apart. So the waist will look square. So I'm like, I'm not telling them that they look square.

I'm gonna go in Photoshop and Ju Ju and I have a waist and they look fantastic.

Matt Stagliano: 00:38:50

You know, I think in there, as we talk about Photoshop and body positivity and all the things, right. I believe there is a difference because it all starts in the artist's mind, right?

So if the photographer or the stylist is going for a look that they know is going to be more fantasy, more fine art than documentary, editorial, then it's okay to use the tools and the skills that we have to make that art come into the world.

So if it means liquefying a waist or a chin or, you know, making a dude look a little bit stronger, like, whatever it might be, that's okay, as long as it's not like, all right, we're trying to show you exactly what this person looks like, and now we're going to go in and shape their body and do all that. That's. It's not the same thing. So I think it's all intention, right? What is our intention for the final image?

And so I agree with everything you just said there. What's a great place for someone to start to fail? Meaning I want to go into the studio next week, and I've got a whole bunch of fabrics, right?

I've got nylons and tools and, you know, cottons and satins and all these types of fabrics. Where does someone like me start knowing that I'm going to fail and it's going to get. I'm going to get it wrong.

But what are some of the easiest things to work with or kind of like a basic place to start so that I can start building my own confidence in just doing the thing?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:40:21

I would start with one shoulder dress, because you can grab the corner and attach it in the back to the bra and wrap the dress around. And then you can have one end of the fabric kind of hanging on the side so we can throw it or create a string, but that's.

One shoulder is a perfect place to start. So if your subject is a female and she has a bra with straps, you can leave this strap.

You can Photoshop the strap later, especially if it's a larger chest client.

Because when you work with someone who is not super flat up front, when you have, like, lumps and bumps, styling is becoming a challenge of structure and building the gown on a person that they feel confident.

So one strap is perfect because you can take that strap, attach it in the back of the bra, and then basically grab the rest of the fabric and clip it on the bottom of the back. That's it. Start there. Another one I would do is halter. The halter neck.

So you grab a necklace, attach the corner of the fabric over the necklace, and again you drape around it and just start there and see how you. If you can try to work with clamps or staple and find the waist, or how you can maybe add one pleat up front to cover the belly.

So all those little things will help you understanding the best part of it. I am in a process of shooting my wardrobe maker.

I'm making a box of instructions and photos with description, which you'll be able to purchase and open it and say, okay, I need this fabric. And that's the step I will take to make that garment, because it's Very. I. I noticed, like, I post a lot of online.

You can go to my Instagram and you can see all the stuff, and people still cannot make it. You can look at it and people like, but how you did that. So that's why I'm making manual. Because this way, it's. People can just open.

It's like, okay, I have it here. This is the step. This is the third step. And I need to take this third. Third step to go to the fourth.

Matt Stagliano: 00:42:28

And I think that's. That's brilliant to do, right? I remember. God, it was years ago. I remember watching Lola Milani's Art of Draping classes, right?

And I think that's where I first got introduced to. Oh, wow. You can do your own thing. You don't have to buy everything. But she's very maternity focused, right? That's her. That's her world.

And I'm like, I don't do maternity at all. So I think something in my brain clicked off and said, well, you can't do any of that, or it's not worth it for your clients.

I think what you're saying and how you're developing this product to this manual, right? These cards, whatever. Whatever form it takes that I could look at and have in front of me with not a.

I'm not going to attempt this with a client on day one. Right? This is something that you have to play with and fail at to understand. I'm telling everybody, do not try this with your clients on day one.

But having something that I can look at and understand. All right, let me wrap this over a shoulder. Let me clamp this to the bra. Let me, you know, tuck this at the waist.

Having those steps then allows me the training wheels to ride this bike down the street a little bit better right now. I start to get that confidence and I can do my own things. And what if we took this in? That's where the creativity as an artist takes over.

You doing that for people is phenomenal. I'm doing something very similar for guys and posing.

And just every time I'm at a conference or anytime someone comes to me and says, hey, do you want a model? I'm like, I ain't a model, but I know how to pose guys, right? I know because I've lived 51 years as a guy, I kind of know how my body works.

So looking at other, like, women asking me how to pose a guy is very similar to me asking you how to make a dress, right?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:44:18

Yeah.

Matt Stagliano: 00:44:19

We know intrinsically how to do it. But we figure everybody knows how to. If we can do it, anybody can do it.

Yeah, but I love the fact that you're willing to go out and now teach people this stuff as well from all your years of failing.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:44:33

There was some gowns, so I'm like, okay, yeah, the client loved it. That's. That's what counts. They felt like a queen. But I was like, oh, if I just, you know, tweak here and tweak there. Slow down. I think the.

The biggest part is the way I process information and I get. I'm an empath. So when I feel that my client is getting or model gets impatient, I will compromise. I want to be like, okay.

I need to take a deep breath and look at it and like, okay, what's wrong? I would like, okay, fuck it. Let's go. Let's. Let's shoot. Instead of being. Giving myself space to be like, okay, what? What?

I can adjust, so I'm learning to do that. It's something which goes against my grain, the way I grow up. Something which my brains needs to rewire, but it's slowing down.

That's what the best advice I can give anyone. Just slow down. I saw that during the conference. You know, we didn't have a time lim at the. Our shooting bay.

Everyone could shoot as much as they want. We had constant light, so there was no receiver on the camera dude, which would trigger the ride. You could just have fun. And I could see people just.

Just jumping. And I'm like, slow down. Look at her. Like, the paper.

I made this paper gown dress, and when she was moving, the paper was moving with her, and the dress was really in shape. So I kept walking in and just like, popping it back into place and slowly. It's nice, princess, like, shape. I'm like, look down.

And the lines you shooting, look down. Look up. Where? The way she's holding her hands. Is there something in a way inside of the triangle of her arms? Is there something interfering with.

With her chin because she had a big collar? Slow down. So, yeah, the best advice, just slow down. It's not a brain surgery. No one is gonna die, right? Just take a deep breath, put the camera down.

Maybe look at the back of the camera and see, like, okay, where I can improve that many, many, many, many times. I would look at it, and I did not feel the spark. You know what? I like, super excited about the image. I was like. I'm like, okay.

And that moment was the moment when I should back away, change my lighting, change styling, change something. Because I was disconnecting from the initial excitement of creating the image. So now I know. I'm like, if it's. I'm like, okay, we.

I'm not shooting this. We are changing things because this is not what I want.

Matt Stagliano: 00:46:58

And that's. That's a huge point to come to, especially whether it's a stylist or a photographer. Right.

It's a great point to come to where if you're not feeling the moment, your client, your subject, your model, whatever it is, they're going to feel it too. And more often than not, they're going to think it's something they're doing. Then just stuff gets weird. I did a shoot literally yesterday.

Wonderful, wonderful girl. We were doing headshots and some personal branding. But there were some moments, especially at the beginning, where it was tough to connect.

I'd be getting shots and she's not giving me the expression. And I'm trying to talk because my thing is connection, right? If I don't have the connection, then, you know, what am I doing?

Trying all the tricks, pulling out all the stops to try to connect to this. And it just wasn't happening. So all I did was I said, you know what? We got this. Don't worry about it.

Let's go try this other backdrop and this other lighting thing. 1. It breaks up that pattern so that we can both get out of this weirdness that we're feeling.

It gives us something else to focus on, and it's resetting our brain to look at the images in a different way. Right. A white, seamless backdrop is going to be way different than a green olifant with gold flecks in it. Right. And it's going to play with the.

With the image differently. I think the same thing can be applied to styling. If you put a dress on and it's just not working, that doesn't mean that it failed completely.

It means that it wasn't right in that moment right there. The slowing down part, I'm guilty of this all the time.

And it's probably one of the things I see most at conferences when people are going to shooting bays is not slowing down, just barging in there, putting the pedal to the floor and just spraying and praying, hoping they get a good shot instead of looking at it like, how can I make this image that a lot of other people are going to take a picture of? How can I make it mine? How can I direct angle, light, whatever it is, how can I make it mine?

And I think that that moment of slowing down and looking at it and saying, how do I personalize this? Gives you so much more power than trying to change whatever fucking dial on your camera you think you need to hit at that moment.

It's never anything to do with that. It's always about just slowing down and looking at it and approaching it from a different perspective. Moving forward.

As we go into wppi, as you are building these things, what are the things that you're most excited about? And then two, that you would do differently from imaging to WPPI or while.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:49:31

We already made a decision that we actually will move away from constant light to strobe because to slow people down. First of all, that shooting bay and the vendor, they are there to connect with the client and did that.

That process did not allow Ilana to actually talk to people about her 3D backdrops and the process and did not allow me to chat about what I do. And that workshop I have coming up and all that stuff. They would just, you know, they were. And they were gone. They didn't allow me to.

We had the little shooting board with the credit notes to show me a credit notes like if you posting, please give us a credit to anamor to me with the strobe, they will have to wait for receiver.

Matt Stagliano: 00:50:15

So they take a picture of that board.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:50:17

Yeah. So would they take a picture of the board so we can see if we can help. I was seeing what people were getting on their cameras. I'm like, if I would.

If they would give me enough time, I would tell them to change the settings and it will look so much better. Or I could tell them like, slow down, let me adjust this in the costume. It will look so much better.

So we decided to go with the strobe and continuous light to create the mood. Another thing I learned is I need to say no more often.

Matt Stagliano: 00:50:49

You people pleaser.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:50:50

Yeah. 12 hours, days. I didn't eat. I lost five pounds. I was on the go nonstop. And I'm learning as a. As a stylist. And I'm very friendly.

I'm very soft, soft spoken. I don't have authority. Authority to my Persona. I'm not. I will look in and say, hey, how are you?

I will be, you know, oh, oh, candy and balloons and rainbows and people will take advantage of me. I'm learning to be a little bit more, have a little bit more barrier around me.

But I spent five days working nonstop and I was absolutely exhausted each first two days. When I came home, it didn't even sink in.

And I was home and then on Monday, my body started letting go of adrenaline and I'm still sobering up from it. Yeah, that's a big note. I'm like, I. It took me a week to come back to myself and to be able to work and concentrate.

So I need to say no more often any people are just like, oh, can you, you know, can I have a, can I have this? They really simplify what I do. They don't realize that the way I do things is 100%. I don't half as things.

So if I'm giving you a fabric, I will like, oh, I need to iron it. I need to make, make sure it's sanitized.

I, I sanitize a lot of fabrics with mix of alcohol and water because some of the things you have to dry clean. And during the show, I don't, I, I don't have dry cleaning, like available at my hands. And sometimes I have to switch from set to set.

So I actually have to go sanitize it. I need to steam it, but like, oh, can I just grab it? I'm like, no, because I need to sanitize it.

I need to make sure that I sanitize all my jewelry because if someone use it, I need to clean it. So people really simplify.

They, they think like they come into a girlfriend to borrow a dress, but it's way more work than that because I'm a professional. I don't want someone getting cooties from someone else.

Matt Stagliano: 00:52:45

So talk about that because I think that's important. Right. So a lot of people have studio wardrobes and they don't launder anything. Right.

They just kind of like, oh, yeah, this person had it, this person had it. If it sits there long enough, it's kind of like the clothes on my floor. It sits there long enough, it actually cleans itself. Right.

And then you just put it on a week later. Yeah, take it out. Smell test. No, it's fine. When you're mixing like alcohol and water in a spray bottle, Right.

Is it just kind of like a mist of it to kill whatever on there? And then the same thing wiping down with jewelry, like little wipes or something like that?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:53:17

Yeah. So it's a trick from my sister. Now my sister in law has a dance school and they have costumes for dancers.

And some of those costumes you cannot wash, of course.

So theaters and then schools, what they do, they do 50, 50 water alcohol and they spray in all the contact spots, you know, like armpits and crotch, all that stuff for crotch. I always advise Go on Amazon website or Walmart or some cheap and get some different skin colors, thongs.

And then when the model puts them on, those thongs are theirs. You don't take them back and washed. They are theirs. And then you can put an underwear or a bodysuit, whatever you have, so you have that protection.

Sometimes I will also put linings inside because, you know, for men, I will put in pants, I will put lining because I. When they sweat, I don't want them to feel like, okay, I will sweat through. If I can wash those pants, right, I don't have to worry about it.

But if it's pants from, like, tuxedo, and I'm like, okay, I have to dry clean it, that will take a lot of money because you have to think about, I'm cheap, so I'm doing dry.

Matt Stagliano: 00:54:26

No.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:54:27

Yeah.

Matt Stagliano: 00:54:28

It's an important thing, I think, for. Especially for folks that are just starting out. And even with just fabrics and styling, you want to make sure that you're using clean stuff.

You don't want to be that person that gave them the cooties.

For me, whenever I'm having someone come in the studio, part of my education at the beginning is sending them, like, all right, here's how you prep for the shoot, right? A lot of people send out these emails, but I always have, like, hey, if you're going to use my studio wardrobe, bring this. I call it the model bag.

Bring this model bag of stuff. White, black, nude panties, white, black nude bra, thongs, like, whatever you're comfortable in.

That way you can wear it under my garments and everything is cool. And most people are super appreciative of that.

They're like, wow, I never really would have even thought to do that because no one told me to do it before. But I think you raise a really, really important part of just being a professional in what we do.

Whether you're a stylist or a photographer, just paying attention to that very simple thing. And it seems like common sense, but it's not to a lot of people. Not at all.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:55:28

Yeah, you got to clean, clean your shit. Clean it. Right now I'm, you know, on the verge of new studio, but in Albuquerque, New Mexico, I was wiping every surface.

I would Lysol, and it was even pre covered. You know, Covid got us a little. But it comes, like, stellarizing stuff. But I would like. It's polishing me. It has to smell clean.

So I would sterilize all the surfaces. You have to be very cautious nowadays, because I'm learning a Lot of people are very allergic to smells, so. And LYSO can be very irritating.

So you can try cleaners which are more organic and stuff like that. But every so first my clients touches, it has to be clean, period.

Because you never know that they can have a cut and then they get infection and then finger furloughs and what they're going to do, they're going to come and sue you. They get, you know, especially like when I'm looking at ears, this is so close to the brain, like, and they. I have earrings.

If they put earring, dirty earring in and they have something going on in their hole, that infection goes really quickly to their brain. So I do not want to risk any of that. So I have to. Yeah. So for me to just style someone, I'm like, no, that has to be clean.

I'm not gonna give you some someone else sweat and dead skin on an oil. And that's just yucky.

Matt Stagliano: 00:56:52

I love that this is where the podcast has gone. Just how nasty people are. Speaking of cleaning, I saw you recently. You're cleaning your new space, right? You got a new studio. Tell me about.

Because I didn't get to. To see all of it, but tell me about your new studio.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:57:05

So I'm 30 minutes outside of Austin. I'm San Marcos, Texas. It's a Texas university town. So it's a small little town and I got a whole building.

I founded this old gentleman who owns the complex. Turned out that he used to be a photographer and he used to make digital backgrounds back in a time when the film was.

He was actually projecting background. So he was making almost like a projector type thing, producing it, like whole gear.

Like it wasn't just like, oh, you know, there's a fabric and maybe a slide. And he was actually building the machines. Wow. So the guy has a great depth of photography and now he.

Him and his family, imagine managing the complex. And when we met, we clicked right away. And how did you.

Matt Stagliano: 00:57:52

How did you meet?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:57:52

I found him. I always use LoopNet. Yeah. NewLoopNet.com. it's a website for commercial listings.

Matt Stagliano: 00:58:01

So you were looking for a commercial space and you got in touch with this guy and so on?

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:58:06

Yeah, I looked at it and looked at it. I'm a safe player because the rent and utilities will run me around $2,000 a month. That's $24,000 a year.

That's basically two and a half, three months of my income.

Matt Stagliano: 00:58:22

Sure.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:58:23

So I'm like, I don't know. But to do what I Do and do it with the joy. I need space. I can't. I don't want to have people coming to my home. I can't. I tried it. It's.

We, Bill and I, we don't feel. My husband. We don't feel comfortable with that. So I found a space, and it is a warehouse where.

It's a metal show warehouse without actual walls that I can put the nail in because it's metal. So now I have to figure out how I'm going to hang backdrops, how I'm going to display my wall art.

It's completely, you know, completely different approach from what I had. I will have to be very creative, which I won't have a problem with. But it's. I'm like, oh, this one.

Matt Stagliano: 00:59:02

I'm telling you, rare earth magnets, the super strong magnets. One of the things that I'm doing in my studio, I have got regular walls. I don't have metal walls. Right.

I don't live in the submarine that you just started to rent. So I've got a studio, regular drywall walls, but I have really large backdrops. And it's just me in the studio, very difficult to hang.

And I've tried all sorts of stuff. I've tried those pulley systems, and I've tried poles, and I've tried nails. And I've done all the things.

And one thing that I'm trying now, which is working is a thin strip of metal, right. Which you can get pretty much any Home Depot.

Screw that into the wall, nail that to the wall, glue it to your walls, whatever, and then you can just use rare earth magnets. And they hold 30, 40 pounds. Right. So take 1, 2 or 3, depending on your backdrop, and just make them stick right to the wall. Right.

Paulina Gwaltney: 00:59:55

So I'm gonna give it a try.

Matt Stagliano: 00:59:58

I want to see how it. See how it works in this big metal building of yours. But I digress. You're telling me about this space. It's like 7,000 square feet.

Maybe not that big, but it's. It's a good size. From what I saw, it looks like you have two levels. Do you have two levels in there?

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:00:13

.: 1100

Matt Stagliano: 01:00:21

Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:00:22

to have a warehouse which was: 1700

No, it's so much better. It's so much better because now I have a loft with my props. And I will have a space where I can leave my project out when I'm working on them.

I make headpieces and garments and stuff like that.

When I had clients come in and I have to put everything away because I cannot have razor blades and hot glue and all that stuff lying around because people will get hurt. So I was like, I had to put it away, clean the studio up. Now I will have two levels that I will have my little, you know, hobbit hole sweatshop.

My little sweatshop. I will be just sitting there and, you know, being. Cussing people out because they made mean comment about me. They even smoking a pipe.

Matt Stagliano: 01:01:17

Just an old curmudgeon up there sewing stuff. Being mad at everyone. Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:01:22

Oh, yeah. Hating everyone. Just loving my dog. You only want to understand me so, yeah. So the space is absolutely fantastic.

I am so excited because we just finished today. My gear closet. I never had the gear closet. So I have actually designated space where I put all my lights out, all modifiers, all that scent.

I have so much of that stuff. I didn't realize it because I had it everything cases, because you want to protect it. Now I have a closet which is. It won't get dusty.

It's all displayed. I was. I was standing there. I'm like, I feel like I graduated to be a photographer. Right?

Matt Stagliano: 01:01:59

You're an adult now.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:02:00

Yeah, I'm a. I'm a big girl now. Like, I can actually tell you, like, I have Constance and I have. I didn't know I have eight strobes. I thought that.

Yeah, I thought I have, like, two and six came out. I don't know.

Matt Stagliano: 01:02:12

I'm like, how George Carlin. You know George Carlin?

So George Carlin had this theory that every time you move into a bigger space, you just get more stuff and you fill the space with more stuff and more stuff. No matter how much. How much space you think you have, you're going to fill it with more stuff. And I found that to be totally the case.

the same size as yours. About: 1700

I had all the room in the world for what I do. Now I'm like, I need place to put all this shit.

And I realized that if I ever close that studio, I have no idea where I'm going to store all this furniture and props and gear and fabrics and all the things. I'm going to need another building at my house to put all that stuff in. It's amazing how quickly we accumulate all of that. Right?

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:03:05

Yeah, I know. Especially if you are a person who depends on income, coming randomly.

Matt Stagliano: 01:03:13

Yeah, totally.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:03:14

So you, like, oh, you get that stool for $35. Most of the business owners will be like, okay, we didn't use that stool. We can get rid of it.

Because I know I will get that $35 whenever we need it and we can buy a new one. With photography, you don't have that guarantee.

Matt Stagliano: 01:03:28

Not at all.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:03:29

So I'm. When I get piece of fabric, I'm going to hold up.

I have fabrics for last 10 years, and I use them over and over because I don't want to invest in that again.

But I will tell you, this downsizing is a wonderful thing because I found that I was hiding behind props and chairs and backdrop to validate for my clients to spend money with me.

Matt Stagliano: 01:03:53

Look at. Look at how professional and luxurious I am. Spend money with me because I have all this stuff, right?

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:03:59

Yeah, I don't. They don't give a fuck. They don't. Now, I have my favorite prop.

And their favorite prop is, I got this shipping one time, and they were four long Styrofoam blocks in it, and I tape it together into big one block. You can actually sit on it. You can lie on it. It's soft to the. The hip bone because it's. It's a Styrofoam. That's my posing block for free.

And everyone loves it. I put it under fabric and, you know, to match the set. And they don't care about how fancy the chair is. They don't care how much I pay for fabric.

And they really don't care how many sets I'm gonna do with them, as long as they get beautiful photos. They really don't. Very rarely, I get people like, oh, I need six photos with six different outfits with six different backgrounds.

People don't really look at images like that.

So when I was moving out from Albuquerque and closing my photography business there, and I was looking at that stuff and looking at my last nine years in New Mexico, how my income was going, I blew a lot of money on props and because I was hiding.

And then I look at some photographers who don't even use Apple boxes and they use paperback drops, and they are very, very successful because they see the volume themselves and they. They're not shying away from saying this, how much I cost and you're going to pay me that. So. Yeah, it was very good way to like. Okay. I really don't.

They come for me for money, talent and not for a chair.

Matt Stagliano: 01:05:34

That was going to be. My question is, you know, as you moved from one studio to another, what were the kind of lessons that you learned? Right.

Downsizing is a big part of it because it does show you how little is important when, when it comes to taking the photographs. Right now if you're like a fantasy artist and you depend on the props to make the. Of course you need your need your closet full of stuff, right?

Like Richard Wood, for example, like, he makes these unbelievable pieces and there's no real digital art in it because he's got all the props. Yeah, he does some Photoshop work, but like it's all the props that he's collected over and he talks about this.

He's got closets and closets full of skulls and all this. What I'm seeing is that's a style of photography. And then I get very humbled.

Like you said, when you see someone that's just using like a cheap Godox strobe, you know, maybe a piece of cardboard or some seamless paper as a backdrop, and they are crushing it. They are busy nonstop.

And I think one of the things that I certainly learned the wrong lesson when I got into doing portraiture and high end portraiture, that is that I felt like I needed to do what everybody else was doing and I wouldn't be a good photographer until I did the headdresses and the flowers and the big dresses and. And that's not the world I come from. So I felt like I needed all that stuff and I spent an inordinate amount of money chasing that.

But I came to the same realization that you did. You don't need that stuff to make people.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:07:07

And you know, like just being right now before WPPI and like when I saw what was happening during imaging, those conferences pry on that. Like, let's not lie to ourselves. This is a room full of people who are selling and there is always a new camera to buy.

There's always new lens to buy. There's always a headdress you want, there will be always a dress you want, there will be always something on your list. Always.

But then you have to make decision. Do you want to chase the trend or you want to chase your goal? Because those are two things.

Matt Stagliano: 01:07:42

Delete. Gratification is not something that people are used to.

Not nowadays where you can just go on Amazon and get Anything you want instead of searching for that thing. And what I find is that people will do a lot of that they will not think about. All right, Is this like sue used to say, right?

Is this going to make my ship go faster? It's okay to buy yourself stuff if you want the thing, but don't do it for the wrong reasons. Right.

Or at least be honest with yourself as to why you're doing it. Right. That's it. Right. I'm not going to sit here and tell people how to spend their money, but I can tell people how to save their money. And it's.

Don't buy that thing that you think you need. That you don't really need.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:08:18

Yeah, you don't. You know, I was organizing my studio today and I was like, oh, I didn't know I had three banners. How I got that one? Oh, I did. I got.

I got this thing for the project and I never happened. I'm like, $100 here, $50 there, $20 there.

Matt Stagliano: 01:08:34

Right?

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:08:34

And it's just like. And I'm like, that could be a vacation.

Matt Stagliano: 01:08:38

Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:08:39

I didn't go because, you know, I looked at the bottom line like, oh, well, we cannot afford vacation right now. So, like, it's like this move made huge shift for me because a I rebranded. I let go of Paulina Galtney Photography after 10 years.

I was like, that's hard. Well, I went to. I got to the point, I'm like, that's not my goal anymore. I. And I do still have ego. I still want to be praised.

I still want to be recognized for. I. Every human being is. If someone says that I. They don't have an ego, they're fucking lying. Ego is a self preservation.

Like it preserves us to stay with the tribe and survive. And it didn't because I was moving. It felt very natural. If I would be staying in the same place, maybe I would have different emotions.

But I was moving and relocating and starting different chapter of my life. So now Stuka Atelier is owned by my husband and I am a contractor. So I completely separated myself from the business. Good.

I'm an artist and I want to stay there, and I'm a contract to do that. And my art, art is my art and work is work. So I find this arrangement very fitting for my beliefs.

I realized that I don't want to really make that much money for the longest time. You know, I had a lot of amazing mentors.

And probably my latest mentor, Sarai Taylor, she'll be like, yelling, what the hell you're talking about, girl. But I realized that I value my downtime and time spending with family and my husband way more than money.

And I just, I'm like, I just think I just want to bring like 2,000, $3,000 a month, which means that I have to make like 8,000 because, you know, cost of running business, all that stuff. But I'm like, I'm not. I'm not interested in big numbers anymore. For a while, I was very lured into it because everyone is doing and throwing luck.

$13,000 sales. $20,000 sales. Leah is fantastic. Good for you. But now I'm like, oh, okay, cool. You made that much money. But I'm.

Well, first of all, I don't know what you bought. Did you sacrifice for that? Because they don't tell you the backstory, right? So I decided I love being in Texas. I love this weather. I love outdoors.

I love traveling. I don't want to be like completely tied to work all the time. Right now I'm very tied to work because I'm growing another part of business.

But it's just temporary. And I'm still trying to find a balance of like, I need to rest because if I'm not resting, I'm going to burn out. If I burn out, I cannot work.

And then it's completely full on panic mode. And you know, you know, I will end up with another ketamine appointment because I tried ketamine. It's wonderful for setting your brain.

If you are in a state where it's legal. Try it. It's amazing therapy. You will get high as a kite.

Matt Stagliano: 01:11:41

Oh, I tried it illegally years ago.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:11:43

I had five appointments back to back to reset your wiring of your brain. It was amazing. It got me out of really deep depression. I was connected to heart monitor.

I had a nurse next to me because you can go wrong really quickly. And I was never in life. My life that high. I discover a lot of interesting things. I never, I never got to hallucination point or like vision point.

I'm way too tight. Like, my brain is very. It's protecting itself. So I'm to get in. I think I will have to wait for abogain or something like that.

Matt Stagliano: 01:12:18

Where does stuka come from?

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:12:19

Stuka is in Polish, means art. And I'm Polish, so I just spelled it more English so it's art atelier. Because I want to.

At some point when I will burn out photography, I want to give people local photographers place that they can work out.

I will get a commission on what they do and you know, we'll keep going because there's a lot of photographers out there who doesn't want to do business. And I will just fit that niche and offer a place for people to work. So I will see how soon that will come.

Because headshots and branding, it's super, super easy field to just start and just get going and start generating income.

I don't know how I will find dynamic around it because, you know, I build a brand, I advertise with a brand, and someone will come and take their photos. How do you handle that? Is it their photo? Is it my photo? You know, all that stuff. So we'll see. That's kind of on to the list.

Right now I'm just unpacking. This is my fifth studio. I ran my photography out of living room, out of share space, out of another share space.

Then I renovated whole space and got kicked out by accounting because he was not up to fire code. And I got another space and then I moved again and I had to use a share space. And then I finally got my dream warehouse in Albuquerque.

So I run studio from little spaces to huge spaces. When it comes to income, it doesn't make difference.

Matt Stagliano: 01:13:49

I love your story. I love your story.

And God knows I could sit here for the next couple of hours and just listen to you go on and on and on because there's so much that I just. I love listening to you talk because it's one, very calming for me.

Two, you're able to bring a very practical approach to both photography and styling. It's not this unattainable art in either direction.

So a lot of people think photography is mystical, but everybody's got an iPhone, so they can all kind of take pictures. But we all get dressed in the morning. Well, most of us, I get dressed in the morning. I can't think about making clothes for people. Right.

And you have convinced me that there's just a much more practical approach to doing this. And I love that. I love the fact that you're doing it and you're making it your life's work. I cannot wait to see you in a couple of weeks at wppi.

I am not working at it this year.

I am solely going out for me and me alone, which means I can come and hang out and listen to you berate people on a microphone as they walk by or make fun of me, whatever it is. Right? I can't wait to see that happen. I want to see Alona again. I really think it's going to be a very Expansive show.

Not only for you, for everybody that comes by the booth, because I think you're really going to blow some mind. So in preparation for that, where can everybody find everything that you're doing now?

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:15:14

Stuka Atelier S H T O o K A atelier.com or Stuka Atelier, Instagram, Facebook. That's how they can find me. I just came up with a little idea for beginner stylists if you don't want to use fabric.

I always say that to folks when they are starting the process out. If I can leave you with this one little nugget, buy as large as possible.

Xxxl cut it in the back, the top, the dress, and then you can fit the body and clamp it. That's it. Buy one size. That's. If I. If I can leave you with something like that, this is the. The biggest thing I could.

I use that trick not only for different body sizes, but also for. For people with disabilities, because the movement is not equal to everyone's.

Matt Stagliano: 01:16:02

It's important too. Right. So everybody thinks that you have to have a costume, but you never see the back of it.

Or if you're making a dress, don't take a picture of the back because the back is nothing but staples and clamps and tape and sometimes a really small person just holding stuff together. Yeah, I love that.

So you're saying just take a really big dress, cut it straight down the back, and that way you can wrap it as tight as you need to wrap it and clamp it wherever you need to clamp or staple.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:16:28

All my clients, I had a couple of clients when I had the gown and their hips didn't fit. And I walked in with the scissors and in front of them and they were like.

Matt Stagliano: 01:16:38

They lose their minds. Yeah.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:16:39

I'm like, this is a piece of tool. We're going to use it. I don't care.

Matt Stagliano: 01:16:43

Thank you for hanging out with me today. I really appreciate it. I will see you in. God. It's going to be less than. Less than a month, I think is. It's coming quick. You better.

You better get your stuff straight, lady, because everybody's rolling in hot and they're going to be looking for you after this. So I will see you. She and my love. And thank you again for being here.

Paulina Gwaltney: 01:17:04

Thank you.