Ep. 051 - Oliver Lozano: How Cinematic Storytelling Creates Connection

Matt Stagliano: 00:01:00

Hey, welcome back to Generator. There are a ton of portrait photographers out there. Some good, some not so good.

But then there are some portrait artists who go beyond just taking a good photograph. They make an effort to truly reveal people. Oliver Lozano is one of those photographers based in Stuttgart with roots in both Mexico and Germany.

Ollie's a filmmaker, a musician, and a photographer. But in all his artistry, he is, at his core, a visual storyteller who brings depth and soul everything he creates.

Over the course of the next hour, you're going to hear us talk about everything from being inspired by the magic of old Hollywood to his experiences mentoring other creatives after decades of commercial photography and portraiture.

Over the course of the next hour, you'll hear us talk about everything from being inspired by the magic of old Hollywood to his experiences mentoring other creatives after decades of commercial photography and portraiture. We also dig into the deeper stuff like identity and masculinity and vulnerability, how powerful it is to feel seen, truly seen in front of a camera.

I met Ollie a few years ago at the Portrait Masters, and after following his work from afar ever since, I'm always impressed at how he creates experiences for his clients and how human connection is his superpower. He opens up about being a performer himself and how that taught him how to be empathetic to the people that walk into his studio.

We get into what it means to challenge yourself as a creative entrepreneur, how communication goes way beyond words, and how film played a huge role in shaping his artistic voice.

Ollie's attitude towards life is adventurous and unapologetic, and he shows us how to be strong and confident without losing your sense of respect for those around you. This conversation is equal part art, business, and heartfelt intention. I think you're gonna dig it.

So settle in, because there's a lot to unpack here over the next hour with photographer Oliver Lozano. So now let's get on with the show.

Oliver Lozano: 00:03:28

That's exactly how I started this was I was having these conversations, and people are like, this should be a podcast, or we should have recorded that. I'm like, yeah, we probably should have. Wait a minute. I can record these things.

And then I realized that the conversations that we were having about business or art or just the.

That we see, that none of them were actually public conversations, but we're all talking about the same stuff, so why not have these conversations like we have at a bar or in a backyard or at a party or something like that? So, yeah, I love that. Have you found. Have you found in doing Yours.

That there's a deeper level of conversation that you're having, or do you feel like people are more guarded as soon as a microphone gets turned on?

Speaker C: 00:04:15

Well, with me, they're not. That's one of my superpowers, actually.

But I guess in general, I mean, I talk about basically everything and I make myself vulnerable and I'd make jokes and fun so they know there's no. I'm not. I'm not the word. The word police. I'm not the political correctness police. I just want them to talk as they are. I don't want to offend anyone.

Although this is a huge sport right now and everywhere. So, I mean. But basically I just want them to have a. Have a good time. I can't. There's the word safe space. Yes. Okay.

But for us, it's common sense, you know, just to talk as adults and to give something. An insight of experiences we have or anecdotes or maybe just thoughts we have that we do not have the answer to. So that's about it.

Oliver Lozano: 00:05:05

It's a really interesting space these days, isn't it, where as we talk to each other, there's always this thing in the back of our head of like, oh, don't say that. That might be controversial, that might make people upset. But then I look around the landscape and I see people. That controversy is their.

Their bread and butter. It's what they love to do because they want that engagement.

I'm kind of like you, where I don't really care what territory we wander into, but I think I was corporate enough to always have that little bit of reservation. Do you ever have that filter or do you just kind of go with the flow? I. I know your personality. I just want to. What are you? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: 00:05:52

Well, okay, officially, no, I am. I love to provoke people, but not in a. In a way where I would offend them or let's say I would hurt them.

Oliver Lozano: 00:06:01

Yeah.

Speaker C: 00:06:01

But I have. I have a radar for people who have their guard up for whatever reason. There's so many reasons about that.

That's what I learned also through my coaching education and with, you know, within the last half year, I made great experiences, bitter and sweet and the good and the bad and the ugly. But I still think sometimes it's. It's.

Some people need someone who kind of dragged them out of their fortress of solitude where they just made to themselves very cozy and very protective. But they also just lose so many opportunities to have joy.

And I kind of don't want to provoke them in A way, like, to offend, but I want to provoke a thought that maybe puts a seed in their mind, or let's say not even a seed. The seed is already there, but, like, puts water on them and kind of fast forwards a little.

How you say, like a sprout or something that comes out of the little growth.

Oliver Lozano: 00:06:52

Yeah, just growth.

Speaker C: 00:06:53

e Facebook posts of mine from: 2015

I was very bitter, and I wouldn't write that now, but now I'm 10 years older, so I'm still me. You know, I have a. Some people say, well, you might be difficult, but I just have a very low bullshit radar. And I. And I don't.

Like, I sense when people try to bullshit me or tell me one thing, but they obviously feel or think something else.

So, yes, I have certain things I would not say, but just because I'm sensitive enough now with certain situations that I learned that it's not up to me to make a statement. I can always ask. But generally I speak what I think and I think what I speak. But I would say, like, 10, 15 years ago, there was zero filter.

Now there's a filter of, I would say, common sense to humanity and good behavior.

Oliver Lozano: 00:07:57

It's that little bit of wisdom that we gain as we get older. Like, I really want to say this.

Speaker C: 00:08:03

Yeah, sometimes you provoke someone and you destroy a possibility of a great talk or a connection that would have been there. Because sometimes things come out a little more spiced up than they are. And so, I mean, if someone looking for trouble, they get it.

If someone's looking to be offended, they will be constantly offended. This is also a decision. But in general, people are normal and nice and just look for connection, especially now in this artificial time.

Oliver Lozano: 00:08:38

Yeah, I think you're right with that. There's so many folks that given all other aspects of how you met or how you interact, most people are good.

I have to assume that most people are not malicious and they are not the same person that I see online. I have to go into every. Every conversation like that.

Like, I know your Facebook personality or your Instagram personality is one thing, but I'm going to erase all of that and I'm going to talk to you like this, like I'm just meeting you for the first time and make my own judgments. If you're still an asshole, then fine, I was right. But if you're not, I want to be pleasantly surprised.

And a lot of times I find that we have way more in common than we do, you know, have ideas that, that differ. And so, you know, I know that you've been a photographer and a musician and a filmmaker, right. So you're in all these different crowds.

How have you navigated these conversations throughout all of those different communities? Because they're different communities. Right. How do you do that?

Because you're really good at connecting with people, building rapport, making people feel comfortable. But at the same time you've got a strong personality.

Speaker C: 00:09:58

Good question. I think I would say I'm generally interested in people. I'm very curious. I have almost a childlike curiosity about the world.

But I'm also very, I would say not cynical. But sometimes, you know, like when you've seen the same thing a thousand times, you're just like, okay, yeah.

Oh, there's a mixture between Joey and Chandler talking. But I just think especially us as photographers or filmers or whoever is working with people.

When I look at them long enough, when I look them through their eyes long enough, I can see their humanity. So even if something separates us which basically is non existent, it's just here, as you say, I'm interested in people and I was raised in Germany.

So our culture in Germany is to be very straight to people. Some people might think that's impolite. I don't think so. Our highest value here is to what we say must be what we think.

So we are not sugarcoating, we are not beating around the bush. There is enough people to do that. But the general culture is like if I say tomorrow two o' clock I will be there.

I will be there 1:58 and not 2:2 and not 2:5. And I won't call 250 and say oh, I'm starting now. No. So we want to get to the bottom of things. So we ask and ask again if we don't understand it.

We ask because we have nine neighbors with different languages. We're in the center of Europe. We had two horrible world wars.

try that has been in the last: 2000

I don't know, maybe they feel like pushed to the wall. Which is absolutely not what we want. It's the opposite. We want to connect. We want to try to connect and avoid any misunderstandings.

That's why we are so precise. The German language is Also very precise. So when we say something, we try to not leave room for misinterpretations. That's basically the. The baseline.

So how you doing? And when you're really in a bad mood, you say, I'm really bad. And in. In the States, everybody's all right, you know? Right. And.

And when you say, oh, I. I had a miserable day. Oh, okay, bye.

Oliver Lozano: 00:12:25

Okay, but.

Speaker C: 00:12:26

But if you say that here, people really ask, oh, what happened? Like, can we offer help? Or whatever like this. So being also Mexican, I was between two cultures always.

So I was raised in Germany, but I have my Mexican blood, and I cannot deny that, which is good. So it's the precision. And I say the German, the German precision and the Mexican passion. The other way around. I don't know if it would work.

Since I was a little boy, we always had, every half a year in the house of my grandparents, a student that was studying German and where I was raised. So we had people from Japan, from Russia, from Indonesia, from Egypt, all over the world.

So I always had people of color, people all kinds of colors, people of all kinds of cultures, languages. And we always try to talk to them and to understand them. I learned how to make origami. I learned how to cook borsch, all these things.

And so I was always curious about. About people. And I guess with that you just connect sometimes. And of course, there can be misunderstandings, which is normal.

But I always grant anyone the benefit of the. Of a doubt, especially if we're. If we're not talking in our mother language, which is a huge difference as well.

Matt Stagliano: 00:13:43

Sure.

Speaker C: 00:13:44

And so I would say I'm. I'm true to myself. I'm true to my. To my values and to my morals. And I don't.

I know this is a way bigger thing in the States than here with if you're black or white or Jewish or whatever. I divide the world in two categories. Asshole and not asshole. That's all that I'm interested in. I don't care about the gender.

I don't care if your gender tomorrow is different than yesterday or if you're transparent or black, or if you have. I don't know if you wear a kilt or if you go with a rope. I don't care if you're a nice person. I love it.

And if you're not nice, then I just go or I throw you out, whatever. But it's that. That's my basic. My basic compass for that. And that helps me with just figuring out, is this the right space Here for me or not.

Oliver Lozano: 00:14:35

That radar has to serve you well. Right? Because that's really all it's about is, are we connecting as human beings or do you have an agenda?

And the moment that I feel like someone has an agend, it turns me off. And I know that I try desperately to go into any conversation or any interaction, any relationship.

I've got all my stereotypes and all my prejudgments about people. Right. I see you coming from 100 miles away and I've already got a story in my head based on the socks that you're wearing. Right. So it's normal.

And I love. I love challenging myself with that.

It sounds like as you grew up and had all of these different cultural influences in your house, that it must have given you a unique insight to stereotypes. Thinking someone's coming from Japan, they're going to be this way. And then you learn something else.

Were there any stereotypes that you had that were totally proven wrong or totally proven right?

Speaker C: 00:15:40

Yeah. The Japanese student who taught me how to origami and also to. To eat with chopsticks. You know, that was the time when Karate Kid came out, when Mr.

Museum split with the flies. Never do that. But his room, his room was full of VCRs and cameras. He bought them in Germany and shipped them to Japan.

So this was a pretty solid paper. I said, okay. I was. What was I? Eight something? Eight, nine, ten something? Yeah.

And I mean, there are a stereotype usually has a kernel of truth in there.

Oliver Lozano: 00:16:20

Right.

Speaker C: 00:16:21

And I don't mind stereotypes as long as they're not destructive or sometimes they can be fun, you know, I mean, I play with them all the time, but it's also just the categorization helps us to navigate a little and to get faster to some results and gives us a certain control which does not exist but in our head. So, yeah, I mean, Latin America and being Mexican, being with the family, I.

When I was there and for example, there was a big party and it was just too much. I. I turned down. I think it's my A.D.H. s. A.D.H.D. you call it, Right? Yeah. Yeah. I was in a torment. And then, you know, I was just sitting there like.

And then they came and said, come on, don't be so German. Dance with us. Germans can't dance. And of course I can dance. You know, I was, I was, I was adding tournaments, but I said no.

And then here, when I came a little too late, which I usually don't, I said, oh, the Mexicans come too late, blah, blah, blah. Or all these Shows with narcos and whatever. Hey, do you have something? Do you have some weed or whatever?

And I said, no, but I can kidnap you if you want. I don't mind stereotypes, as long as they don't define your own vision of the world. Long term, it helps you a little bit to just be cautious.

And yes, you have sometimes bad experiences with certain kinds of people and good experiences with other kinds of people, but still, I would always give everyone the chance to be an individual. And, yeah, some things are rooted in a culture, and some things are just also very individual.

I know Italians that don't like to cook, although usually the Italians I know here from Italy, cooking is a sacred thing. You can change a recipe or something. This is not a traditional, you know, like how my mother did it or my grandmother. And it's just. It's. I love that.

I love this protection of their culture. But also, you can find everything everywhere.

Oliver Lozano: 00:18:14

Yeah.

Speaker C: 00:18:14

And usually when you go to another place in the world, you usually attract the same kind of. You know, the same kind of. Of how you can. How do you say that? Like a wolf pack or. Or a crowd or a tribe.

Oliver Lozano: 00:18:27

Tribe.

Speaker C: 00:18:27

And so. Tribe. So that's. That's basically. I mean, what you send out, you get.

Oliver Lozano: 00:18:33

Yeah.

Speaker C: 00:18:33

And that's dangerous, but also very good. And then once you realize that, it can be a powerful tool.

Oliver Lozano: 00:18:38

We've had conversations in the past about how you connect with your clients and the types of work that you do. And it's clear by, you know, if. If I go through your website and I look at your work, you know, the first thing that strikes me is very commercial.

Right. It's got a very commercial, editorial aspect to it. There's all this influence of cinema that I see. But the great thing is I see variety.

I don't see repetition to the point of boredom. And to me, that's always someone that I perk up a little bit and I look at and I say, all right, let me look at this work a little bit more closely.

And as what type of story are they saying? What type of story are they telling? What is it about this work that has a voice?

And I've noticed throughout your work, you take everybody individually and bring something out of them that is uniquely theirs, rather than it just being you forcing a look onto someone. You seem to take your time to get to know someone and really tell their story. How do you do that?

Speaker C: 00:19:49

That's why I'm so expensive. Well, I didn't start as a photographer. I started as a filmmaker. I mean, of course, I had, I had a photo.

I had a photo camera as a child, but I basically spent half of my childhood in cinema because I didn't have to pay anything. The cinema belonged to my grandfather's sister, my. My grand aunt, or how do you call it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I was watching, like, and it was the best time. It was the 80s, you know, so act to the future. Crocodile Dundee, Ghostbusters, Jurassic park, all these awesome, beautiful movies.

I always was genuinely interested in film. And I, I even up to the point that when you were watching a movie with me as a child, even I could say, oh, this is the voiceover.

Like, oh, Clint Eastwood has the same voiceover than Al Pacino. And he also, he also that did this documentary. And, and mom said, man, if you would know your English as well as this, I would be happy.

So my English now is pretty good, Mom. So I always loved this escapism.

Not because my life was bad, but just sitting there in this beautiful seat with these people that create a field and you experience these stories and have all these emotions, but you're safe, you know, and you see. Wow. And it just triggers so much.

I think film can, can just like, basically really change your mind and give you experiences that you don't have outside of. Of that. And so I, I always wanted to be an actor. And then I said, well, who's, who's. Who's contracting the actor? It's the director.

So I should be a director. Okay, let's be a director. And I said, well, but who pays them? Oh, it's the producer. Well, then let's be a producer, a director and an actor.

Just like Clint Eastwood or Charlie Chaplin or, you know, like, so coming from a tiny, tiny, small town. And then I went here to Stuttgart, and there's nothing with any curated film. It's basically commercial stuff. But I.

I did a little years later, and this even came in the newspapers. I did a little trailer for Star wars here, just for here, like local. And it was great and all.

So I always had this, this storytelling, but in a cinematic way. And I'm a huge, huge fan of old Hollywood. Yeah, like 40s, 50s, 60s, little 70s. Then we're done 20 stories. Like everything that, like from.

From Greta Garbo to Katherine Hepburn, James Stewart, Robert Mitchum, Sean Connery, all these guys, these fucking elegant studs, you know, and this wonderful, wonderful, beautiful women with this incredible light around them. And so I always had this glamorous view on that. I didn't dress like that. I didn't know where to find these clothes, but I.

I just always admired it, you know?

Oliver Lozano: 00:22:49

Yes.

Speaker C: 00:22:50

And so sooner or later, I came to photography, but commercial photography, as you said, I had, you know, I did fashion. I did all kinds of, I say, campaigns and stuff, so.

And nobody was interested if you have a transformational experience or if the model feels empowered because you were booked and they expect results, and if you give them, they're happy, and if you don't, they don't contract you again. And I was arrogant. I was very arrogant.

I was looking down on people who were private photographers, and I said, I don't want to photograph babies, grandmothers, or dogs. And I did some weddings, but I didn't like it at all.

I mean, I did a good job, but I just didn't like the whole paparazzi hummingbird kind of thing because I was used to, you know, and. And with photography, with film, coming from film, you're used to, everything is curated stage.

And if it doesn't work out, you say, okay, let's do it again. You can't do that at a wedding. Right. And so also, like, frames and all that stuff. Here, here. I said, why? You know, it's all digital. I'm so cool.

I'm so fast. And then when I started to work with friends, it's actually during Corona or Covid. You say Covid, right? Yes, we say Corona. Okay.

Oliver Lozano: 00:24:08

Yeah. So.

Speaker C: 00:24:09

And then I started to see what power lies in that portrait photography, how I can change the way people see themselves, or I wouldn't even say change. I can expand that. And I also don't find anything in them, or I just. I just uncover some layers.

Very, very softly funny sometimes, you know, we just pull them out of this wall. And that's when I found out, wow. There's way more in there than just, you know, making family pictures.

And when a customer hugs you and cries out of joy and is happy to pay you, and you earn more than when you do the other job because you have to pay six other people and organize a 60,000 budget for three days of shooting. And whatever you say. Hmm, maybe I should try this. And. And. And that's how it. That's how it went with me. So I am very. I am bored very fast. Yeah.

Which is good, I would say, for myself, because I'm genuinely interested in finding someone else's. I wouldn't say story, but have you seen Iron Man? I guess.

Oliver Lozano: 00:25:24

Oh, sure, sure.

Speaker C: 00:25:25

There's, I think, in part two, when he. When he opens this. This thing and you have this. All these kind of, you know, frames. So when I see someone sometimes and they.

They glimmer something in me. I don't like the word trigger. A glimmer is a positive trigger. So I say glimmer. So.

Oh, it sparks and it just opens up and I see like a hundred different versions of that person. And they all work. And I. And I try to put these little Cs. Can you imagine this? And then through talking, I see where they're.

Where are their passions, where are their hidden wishes that they maybe are too proud or too shy to talk about. And this goes from boudoir to erotica to glamour to portrait to whatever. And that's when it starts becoming interesting. For me, I'm not so much.

I'm pretty lazy. I don't like to put 100 lamps and all this shit. I'm not a technical guy. And if they ask me, what do you shoot on? I say, the camera I have with me.

Oliver Lozano: 00:26:20

Right.

Speaker C: 00:26:20

You know, and so many photographers, usually male photographers, are so technical driven. And I'm absolutely not. I would. I would love not to use gear and carry the shit around, but. So for me, it's the.

It's the personal connection, it's the story in them, and it's. I love to surprise people with themselves, you know, and that's. You don't have that in the commercial work. That's where I learned.

So it's obvious that it's in there. Like, I have this editorial style, which I like, but I also just try to be sometimes grudgy and dirty. And so I.

Yeah, I am also sometimes bored of myself at this. When I say, oliver, you got to do something about that.

Oliver Lozano: 00:27:00

When's the last time I saw you in person? It was Portrait Masters. Right. Last time I saw you in person.

Speaker C: 00:27:03

Too long.

Oliver Lozano: 00:27:04

Yeah, it's been far too long. God, I feel like I've been sitting at this desk ever since. When I. When I look at your work, the befores and afters. Right. So I. I knew you work.

I see it online all the time, but I never really dove into your website to really look at your back history. I know, I know. Surprising. I didn't. I didn't build my life around your website, but. I know. Shocking.

But when I look at it, your before and afters were the thing that killed me. Right. In. In a great way. We all put these amazing pictures on our website. The stuff that we're proud of, our portfolio images and whatnot.

A lot of Portra photographers talked about. I can Take normal people and make you look like a celebrity.

Speaker C: 00:27:49

And then you look at the photos.

Oliver Lozano: 00:27:51

And they're like, these are technically good photos. They certainly look better than they did. Right. A little bit of air and makeup, a little bit of good lighting.

Most people are going to look pretty good.

Speaker C: 00:28:01

Yeah, yeah.

Oliver Lozano: 00:28:02

But to be able to draw that thing out of them, that side of their personality takes a lot more work that you then combine with the cinematic elements. So really going through your, through your website, this stuff didn't surprise me of it being clean. Beautiful, very high end work.

But it was the before and afters that just knocked me out because I'm like, all right, these are regular people. Let me see their personal branding photo. And then I look at it and I say, wow, these are truly great pieces of art.

Every single person you're not putting in front of the same V flat or the same backdrop. Yeah, you can cry all you want. You go right ahead. I figured that was a German thing, is that just all these emotions come flying out of you.

Speaker C: 00:28:49

You are very emotional. We are. Well, I am, but that's the.

Oliver Lozano: 00:28:52

There's. There's probably a 75 letter word for it in German.

Speaker C: 00:28:58

If someone cries fast, we say he's. He. He has his house built close to the water.

Oliver Lozano: 00:29:04

As an American, I'm just going to go with it and be like, it probably sounds more poetic in German.

Speaker C: 00:29:09

We are very poetic. I don't know why you guys think we're not. We have, we are. We have great poets. Good silla. All these, you know. But.

Okay, so finish your lovely sentence.

Oliver Lozano: 00:29:19

So my point being, before you deflected off your own talent, what I was saying was, you know, every person is different. So that's the thing that really intrigues me about an artist is when I can see that not everything is the same. However, I can see their style in it.

That to me shows someone that is very confident in their skills. So I say all that to say this, going from that commercial editorial world into retail photography, let's call it.

There had to be a big shift in terms of how you approach things. And it seems like you landed on that human connection.

Did you learn something in there where you liked that side of photography more so than commercial?

Speaker C: 00:30:06

Definitely, yeah. First of all, thank you. Coming from you, it means a lot because I love your work. You're a true artist.

And you tell me that and I could see it was real. It makes me blush. So thank you very much.

I discovered during my work that when we give the portraits or the artwork to Our clients, we have such a strong connection usually. And I do that.

I learned it through the portrait master, through surprise, with these three steps, you know, the creative session, show, photo session, reveal session, which is brilliant. We called that a chemistry meeting when we were in commercial work. So we see if we can and then we decide to work with each other.

But that's before they pay.

I discovered that when the whole process is over, we have such a deep connection with these people, sometimes even deeper than they have with relatives or whatever because they can be vulnerable and also, I mean, let the vulnerable aside, but just having fun, you know, like we, like we went together to Disneyland basically to had a roller coaster ride and they just tried out everything. They never did. So we kind of are a guide to that. And that's. And then I said, well, and then we let them go, it's over.

And I thought it's a waste of opportunities because usually what happens, we start something, we start a little, a little stone that goes down and then goes to another, to another, to another. And we have kind of a chain reaction in them.

And then I would love to work further with them, but the pictures are done, I can sell them another footage. I can, yeah. But you know, everything has its time. So I said, okay, I want to deep dive into the psychological aspect of it.

And I made a, and I did a one and a half year education as a life trust coach and I learned I did a lot of things already. Right.

But there's so much more to the psyche of the human being, to the voices in you, to trauma, to self destruction, also to being overconfident, rushing into things, having your lizard brain, having all these things that you read them all over social media.

So it's not a secret anymore, but having a kind of a structure and not just knowing how it is, but also how to work with it and how to prevent people from certain thought patterns that they all have. I mean, basically we're all a five year old kid, you know, fact, so or without.

And this was so interesting to me that I said, hey, I want to work with my clients without a camera as well. And that's when I started my coaching business. I don't like the word coaching too much. It's more mentoring and guidance.

Oliver Lozano: 00:32:53

Sure.

Speaker C: 00:32:53

And this is for creatives, this is for non creatives. It's just usually I have, I guess you two like 90% women are my customers. Yeah.

So I had wonderful, wonderful experiences with them about all kinds of problems. Some, one of my clients, she, she had a shoot with Me a power portrait she wanted. And she's a huge rocks rock star fan.

She's basically a very timid woman. I til her in her 50s from, from. From. From Finland. After that she was so like we put here a show on.

We put in some haze, you call it like a lot of smoke and light and I've switched on thunderstruck and I gave her my Gibson SG and she was rocking the floor and I was crying behind my camera of joy. I was laughing and crying at the same time.

It's like when the first time I shot a movie with actors and they were acting my words, I had to cry out of joy. It was crazy. It was like this so. And then after that she said okay, now she wants to have like a female feminine photo shoot.

She wants you because she discovered her feminine side and she wanted me to help her. So we had a year more or less that we worked together like once a month or something.

And then at the end we had to shoot as a manifestation of what she already achieved. So it can be the coaching and then a shoot or shooting and then coaching or at the same time.

And that's when it, that's when it became really interesting for me. Because then you're not the distant artist that some people see in you. Like oh well he's.

But you're, you're a confident and you're a source of, of answers and a source of help. This from the very get go now from the creative session until, until the, the whatever comes after that really helps to unveil the.

The true little five year old that we all are. And then when they switch, I don't know if you have that as well.

I guess after like when we start shooting then after like 30 minutes I would say we go from the switch from I. I have to prove how. What good of a model I am to me. And I tell them you don't have to do anything.

You can't prove to me how good of a model you are because you're not a model. But then they switch from this to childlike curiosity. Click. And that's when it started. That's like when. Okay, now. And that's the best part of that.

I tell them it's like you and I, we go to an amusement park and you just can ride every little ride you want. You can't do anything wrong. You can go into one, you say it wasn't my thing, then you go to the next one, but you can't do anything wrong.

So they are off this performance I have to show I have to function so they will love me thing. This is all off the table, but it needs time, definitely.

Oliver Lozano: 00:35:35

I found that it takes about 30 to 45 minutes for someone to truly relax and start to let themselves be as good as we might be at building trust and giving people a safe place to be themselves. You know, society has us constantly guarded. Don't open up.

And maybe it's more of an American thing than a European thing, but we're definitely very, very guarded. Right. Just as humans, because it's that lizard brain in us. We want to belong to a tribe. We want people to accept us.

And so we wear these masks or we diminish so that we're not seen as a threat or not seen as weird. So we kind of lock all that inside. But when we're given the opportunity to be open, I find with my clients, it's the same exact thing.

It takes about 30 minutes. And then they start to feel real comfortable. They start to have fun. They get into the process, and that's where all the good stuff happens.

You know, I don't know about you, but when I'm. When I'm working with someone, that first half an hour, I'm just doing it to flash the lights. It's.

It's like inoculation for them to get used to the process. Then the real magic starts around the 30, 45 minute mark. You work in glamour, in boudoir, in erotica.

So any level of trust and vulnerability is ratcheted up even further. So this has got to be a superpower of yours as well. What are some of the techniques that you use, especially as a male in this industry?

What are some of the techniques that you use to create that environment where people can feel trusting and safe?

Speaker C: 00:37:19

Oh, if I knew, I would write a book about that. No, I think there are certain steps.

I mean, I figured out that in the States there's way more danger between people than here, usually also in what people believe. And there's a lot of. I mean, there's a lot of weirdos everywhere.

Oliver Lozano: 00:37:35

Yeah.

Speaker C: 00:37:36

And I was raised with women mostly, and I always felt more like happy around women, even as a boy. So this whole macho thing, of course, we are a little macho, but it's nice, it's fun, it's a game, but it's not for real.

So my clients, my female clients, they want to have my vision on them. They want my male way of seeing her as a woman. I adore women. I think they are the most complicated thing in the world.

But the most admirable thing in the world. I don't know if thing is the right word. How do you say that in Germany? Like creation? Let's say it's much better.

The most intriguing creation in the world. They inspire so much, and they.

You can dress them so much better than guys, you know, you can dress whatever you want, but it doesn't necessarily always look good, you know? So I just. I just admire how incredibly beautiful they can be and how incredibly strong and everything. So, I mean, I was shooting with. With.

With women and with boudoir artists and burlesque artists on stage. I was on stage myself, so I understood how threatening it can be if you're a.

If you're a woman and you go out with a guy who is basically double your size, he can do whatever he wants with you. And you just have to have a lot of trust to do that. It's for us guys. I mean, I'm 185. I don't know, six foot something. Yeah.

And I basically don't get threatened that easy from anyone, but we take that for granted. And if you're with someone who is like, if we would go out with a gorilla on a date, that's basically the same, like, I hope he knows how to behave.

Oliver Lozano: 00:39:21

I hope he's in a different mood.

Speaker C: 00:39:22

You know, and just being aware of that, I think you don't even have to say that, but just giving this energy of, hey, you just be you no matter what. That's one thing. And then on the other side, I mean, just don't be creepy, you know, I mean, it's not that hard. You can be intrigued.

You can be inspired. Of course. I mean, if there's someone undressing in front of you and she looks gorgeous, of course it sparks.

And I mean, just imagine if you would be someone, you undress, you look gorgeous or you feel good, and the other person is just screwing on his stuff. Yeah. Okay. It would be strange, you know, there must be a connection. But it's fun. It's sometimes silly. And it's also. I mean, I focus on my work.

It's like some people ask me, usually guys, hey. And then when she undresses, I say, what a disrespectful way, you know, to talk about her and me. Would you say that to a gynecologist?

Honestly, like, no.

Oliver Lozano: 00:40:24

Right.

Speaker C: 00:40:25

So respectful, interested in the person, and then just be intrigued. And, I mean, we are the artists. We need this muse in front of us. Not everyone can be amused.

I think if You're a man and you work with women and you do boudoir, or I call it erotica because it has a little bit more horsepowers than boudoir. Boudoir isn't great. I want to go a little further.

And then people open up in the talks before they talk about what their passions are, what their fetishes are, what they want to. How they want to see themselves as a couple. I have now people who are 60, they want to have a boudoir shoot as a couple, you know, which is cool.

And I just had two. A beautiful couple. My God. They were both gym. They were at the Olympian Games as gym. Like the guys who. Gymnasts. Gymnasts, yeah.

Like, they looked like the training scammer of the Avengers. And then we just. I was. I just said, oh, my God. My. My retouchers thanked me. He said, my God, thank you for these pictures. They're incredible.

You know, we have this beautiful old 30s light with this. With this Olympian.

So of course, I see and say, oh, my God, I can't stop photographing them, which I hate, because I have to go through all of that again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If they feel that you're genuinely loving what you're doing with them.

That's what happened with the other client I told you about from Finland. When we did the boudoir and the erotica shoot.

We first started with long glamour robes, and then she said, okay, now I want to have a nude picture of myself in bed. And I said, are you sure? And she said, you know, I'm so fucking far from my comfort zone right now. I don't care about anything anymore.

That's the spirit. You know, that's. Now she has it huge over her bed, so it's beautiful. And it's.

There's no technique I have, or I have a little roadmap or a rule book, but I'm just. People understand that I'm not a player. People understand that I really love what I.

What I see, what I do with them and how I can curate and just draw them. And they want this process. They like. If you go to a band and say, can you play us? Can you write a song about me?

You don't tell them in what key or what they. You want their vision of you. And that's what you have to. Also. That's what you have to communicate. Yeah. And I understand that some women want to.

Want to prefer to work with women because of all this sisterhood, which is also fair, but it's also a business, you know, let's be honest, I wouldn't. I wouldn't necessarily know that. There's a certain. If you do this and this and this and this, it works out. Just be genuinely you.

And people have a good radar, a good nose for that.

Oliver Lozano: 00:43:09

Yeah. I think as long as it's genuine and real, people give you a lot of leeway.

And I think you rooted everything in respect and safety, but you also have this confidence in yourself that. And I think they see it in the work as well. Like, all right, yeah, he's a guy. But look at the work that gets produced.

And I think you have to have that little bit of a depth of a portfolio to make people feel a bit more comfortable.

No matter what gender you are and what niche you shoot, I think if you're putting out work that resonates with people, your clients are going to come from that and they're going to put a lot more trust in you rather than you being the general photographer that everybody has to go to because you're the only one in town and you have to do babies and weddings and kids and erotica and boudoir and like. And you're not. You don't really have an artistic voice in it.

So I love the fact that you stay true to that confidence that you have in creating the work and that you're also seeing people trust your vision. When we waffle as photographers in front of someone and we're like, I don't know, what do you want to do? All that trust is gone in an instant.

They're looking to you to be the artist. Yeah.

Speaker C: 00:44:27

If you go to a doctor and they tell they asked you what to subscribe, you. You go, you know, and we are. I mean, what you say.

And I read this a lot, especially coming from the States, this whole safety and trust thing, which is, for me, paramount and basic in every job, of course. But what people forget is the fun. People want to have fucking fun, you know, they want to just.

I make them laugh all the time and we make silly the comments and everything, so they just laughed their ass off. That's what's. And sometimes. Sometimes, of course, it's a little like, we touch some sensitive things from the past and everything.

But not every photo session is basically a therapy in a trip down memory lane where everybody cries. It can happen. But then, like half an hour later, we're lying on the floor laughing our asses off. And that's what people forgot so much.

Yes, photography is very deep, and yes, it can heal, but it's also hilariously.

Funny, you know, and it's, it's something that just can change your life for the better, but also through laughter and fun, not only through touching the old wounds, it all comes together. But guys, just have fun.

Oliver Lozano: 00:45:37

I love this point in the conversation because I want to go back to you talking about how you're mentoring other folks, whether it's photographers or not, but you're in this, this space where you're helping people develop this stuff. What do you find specifically with the, the creative folks that you work with?

What do you find is kind of like this, this common thread, this common struggle that those folks are coming to you with that you're able to help them get through, not necessarily solve, but you're able to give them more insight to. Is there a common struggle that you see amongst these creative folks?

Speaker C: 00:46:16

Yeah, it's basically the same things everywhere. It's the same problems I had when I started.

Because I guess it's first of all, when we decide to have a creative job, photographer or actor, singer, whatever, something that is not necessary in a war, your family and friends, out of love, usually try to protect you by saying, can you live with that? Don't you want to do something serious? But there are so many already. My mom was like that, you know, she's a teacher and she tried to.

I mean, she supported it. But first of all, of course, there comes the speech, the lecture, and I said, mom, how many pizzerias are in this town? It's just one or how many?

Yeah, but it's different saying, well, so you start with the guilt, kind of to prove to everyone that you can do it, you're good enough, you can live with this, you kind of earn your medallions, but you never learn, even if you. I mean, I had, I was studying media design, but you don't learn anything about business.

You don't learn anything about investments, about money, mindset, about marketing. Like you, how to make it.

Yes, but how it works, how the psyche works, how you can attract the right people, ica, ideal client, avatar, blah, blah, blah, which I don't believe in at all, actually, you don't learn that. So now you have your skills, now you have your portfolio. Why is my phone not ringing? Why do I feel bad if I have to write an invoice?

If I get the money, what the hell will I do with it? How will I divide it? How much should I invest? How much?

Like all these things, you know, and basically we are artists and there's this constant struggle between being a, a business person which we hate as artists because those are the capitalistic.

And then there's the other guy who says, yeah, yeah, well, you artists, you don't want to live under the bridge, so get your fucking shit together and let's make some money. So these two are constantly in here. And then there's the third one, you know, there's the manager who tries to. Hey guys. Hey guys.

Now we have a music beer, you know, here's to be paid and I'm hungry and I want to sleep. So there's this constant struggle with this whole like battling you. And you need all of them have a.

Have a good voice and have their rules and their missions actually so that the ship is sailing. But you need to decide sometimes who's in charge. And so the basic, the basic problems people have is who am I? What, what am I really want to do?

Like, what is my. What is. Like, I'm a photographer, yes, but what kind of photography do I want to do? I do everything. I want to please everyone. So because it's.

If I can work with everyone, I will have the most money. No, you won't. Then, like, how much should I price my stuff? What if they say you're too expensive? The horror, the most horrible question.

Why do I feel guilty if I get money for something that I enjoy doing? You know, because money has to be earned. You have to sweat your knee, your fingernail. And money is.

The money is what you get when you, when you, when you suffer. Otherwise you don't deserve it. All this. And so these are the things. And then you know how to. If you're introvert. How can I get in touch with people?

Can I hide behind my computer and my keyboard? No, you can't.

But most people are not that introvert, actually as they think they're extrovert among people they trust, then that's when they're like outgoing. But as long as they don't trust, they're like safe. Comes also from the past.

So all these little stepstones into being seen and yes, being vulnerable, but also, I mean, come on guys, we have a mission. You know, people who, with their bland jobs, who never had the balls to really do what they want.

They need us, they admire us, they hate us also sometimes because they envy us. But it's us. We have to provoke and show that there's another way of being than just nine to five. And that's something we can use.

But I mean, get to know yourself. See, what are your strong suits? You don't have to do everything alone. Just. Yes. Make enough money in the beginning, but then just give it away.

For example, my retouch. I don't do it. I don't do my skin retouch anymore. I did it, but I. I don't like to sit in this in front of the computer. I'm a photographer.

I'm not a retoucher.

And all these things, you know, so these things are pretty common with most people who are in creative jobs, because those are the ones who usually struggle the most with this whole business. And I would say capitalistic part of being an entrepreneur.

If you're selling cars and, you know this car cost this much, we have this percentage on top. We have to sell it for. We want a car. Yes. You want a cheaper car? Take this one. Done. No, it doesn't. Oh, okay.

Yeah, it's a Maserati, but I know it costs 250,000.

But we have this struggle, and it's okay to have it, but it's also okay to look at it and just to solve it, because there are solutions to these things.

Oliver Lozano: 00:51:19

I love everything you just said. I'm just sitting here nodding in agreement.

Speaker C: 00:51:22

Because I'm like, yeah, I have, like, crazy. You have to cut my.

Oliver Lozano: 00:51:26

No, no, I wanted you to finish the thought because there's so much in there that points towards. We believe that as photographers or artists of any sort, that we. The natural progression is to get into business. And it doesn't have to be that way.

You can just be the artist and have another job. You can still bring your vision to the world and still have a job.

However, comma, if you do want to be an artist that is making money, you have to treat it like a business and be able to get over some of those mental hurdles so that you can make a living. Now, you said something early in your monologue about the fact that you don't believe in avatars of, like, the perfect client.

And I just want you to expand on that a little bit because I don't think I disagree with you, but I haven't really thought about the notion of an avatar too much. Why don't you believe in avatars?

Speaker C: 00:52:27

When I was working for other companies during my 15 or 20 years of commercial work, I still could do commercial work, you know, but all of it is commercial. They sell it, but you know what I mean? Like campaigns and working with brand agencies.

So when we were working for a specific client, they had a very certain kind of avatar who they sell their technical supplies to for us creatives, mostly. I don't have an avatar where I say, okay, my perfect client is 48 or 40 and she's single. Her guy just dumped her.

Now she wants to feel herself and she comes here and in her sorrow, she's not aware of how much money she spends. You know, like that. Yeah, that's also the niche, you know, the niche of what you do.

The niche of us creatives is I am my niche, me, the way I do things, that's the niche I don't have to niche down on. I only shoot headshots or I do portraits. I don't do anything else. I don't do landscapes, I don't do food, I don't do cars.

I don't do anything but that. But focus not on the person I want to work with. I focus on what I want to do and how I want to do it.

And this attracts a person who love what I offer. And they can be. I had all kinds of people, all kinds of ages. I had people who were very rich. I had people who were just average income.

I had people who had payment plans with me, but they still wanted to do that.

So I cannot say they need to have at least 100k a year, otherwise they won't invest 15,000 with me, which some do twice and others just leave two and a half K. And I said, that's not enough. I don't like that. No, I want to have fun in this life.

I just have 40 years left, maybe, or 50, maybe just 20, who knows? Maybe just one more day. And I want to have fun as much as I can. And I, yes, I have. Here, look.

You don't see that, but this is paperwork I have to do tomorrow. You see that? So this is also my life. Yes, but I have a limited time that I can work with people.

And I want to have us both or three people, or how many they are to have the best time we can have.

And I focus on what I love to do, which is the cinematic photography, the storytelling, the provoking, the getting their own thoughts and wishes out of them and just to manifest them and have them come alive in art. And I don't care if where they're from or what kind of intellectual level or high school diploma or whatever they have, which is.

I just think it's silly to put the focus on the person instead of yourself and not out of egomania. But I mean, people come to me because of me. Yeah. And people go to a Rolling Stones concert because they want to listen to the Rolling Stones.

They're going, hey, can you play something From Nirvana. No, you know, they. Well, it's wrong ticket guy.

So I think it's way easier because then if you show what you do and I mean that's one of the struggles of a lot of creatives. Show what you do, but also show yourself. I am my product.

If people want to work with me, they cannot work around me, so they might as well know who I am. And that's mostly the smaller businesses and the creative businesses.

And whenever you get in touch with the persons, that's when you have to show yourself. If you buy a Nike shoes, you don't care who's the CEO of Nike, but you care who's the. Who's the vendor in the shop.

And that's my approach to this whole client avatar because it's like it's so artificial, it's not real. Whoever had that, I've always struggled with.

Oliver Lozano: 00:56:20

It to a couple of different levels because, yeah, I try to take every person that steps through my door as an individual and I try not to make any assumptions about what money they may or may not have or what their wishes are are not right. They came to me because they saw something in the work and they want that for themselves. Cool beans by me. Right? So let's. Let's have some fun.

Let's create what you want to create or what I want to create and see if we can meet somewhere in the middle. It'll be awesome. It'll be a great time.

I think for people that are getting into business early that have just come from straight art in the background, maybe they've been shooting photography and they now want to make it a business, but they have no idea how to approach business. I think the notion of avatar is good to think about how do I want to establish my marketing.

But I really agree with you of saying don't get locked into that. It's a, it's a. It's a guide post to kind of make you figure out for yourself what is it that you want to shoot and why.

Because you have to have that why in there? Why are you doing this? Why do you want to be in business? Why are you a photographer? Right.

Speaker C: 00:57:32

Why do you want to become a photographer? Exactly.

Oliver Lozano: 00:57:35

A hundred percent. So I think by getting rid of any of those preconceived notions, you kind of come to some better answers on that.

Like you have, you've got a whole reasoning why. And that is something that we don't explore enough. Intention and someone's why they're in business versus I guess that's What I should do.

I got a camera, I can't do anything else.

Speaker C: 00:57:58

Let me just take some pictures.

Oliver Lozano: 00:58:00

You've got a great focus on why and intention now.

Speaker C: 00:58:04

I have this now, not when I started. That's true.

Oliver Lozano: 00:58:07

It just seems like you've always had this confidence, so.

Speaker C: 00:58:10

Well, confidence was never my problem. I'm still very anxious about things, but the way I react, nobody knows. This is my approach.

I just, you know, I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a slider between I don't care and I really want to be loved. Oh, yeah. What I can tell people if they, if they struggle with that.

I would, I would say if you have like five or 10 clients already, just think about the projects that you loved the most and think about the people that you love the most and think about the money that you love the most. These three things, if you can combine them, the money is the least important, but it will come.

Who of your clients is the one that you love the most and why? And then go there and ask them, hey, you're my absolute dream client. With 20 more of you, I would be in heaven.

Do you know anyone like yourself and can you recommend me? That would be one of those things. For example. Of course, you need to know where your people are. Usually, you know, and who can.

Who has the value in what you can do for them. This is one of the three rules I have for myself to work with someone. The first one is they must understand what benefit I give them.

And it must be clear that it's not a favor I do for them. And they don't have more power because they pay me. It's an energy money. And what I do is an energy exchange. That's it.

I give my lifetime, nobody can pay me for that. And I give my talent, and they give me just money. And money is just time you spend in work. That's all it is.

And then second of all is there must be a mission or there must be something that has a meaning for that. And the third one is, yes, they have to have the means to afford it. And if they pay it once or if they do a payment plan.

And as I told you, I have people who have two and a half, I have people who have 10, I have people of 15, I have people who have 30. Not every day, unfortunately, but it's there.

And there are a lot of rules to sell fair, not to just overbear someone, but when you start, I know it's A little difficult. And you usually grasp every little straw you can get. I did the same. And it's in.

It's okay if you do that in the beginning, but then sooner or later, you can't go on like that forever and you don't have to. So you know who you want to work with. Basically, you know, it's. But everyone knows how you do it. And Steven side, I agree with that. I know.

How about the business, Matt?

Oliver Lozano: 01:00:44

now. I started at the end of: 2012

So 12, 13 years, depending on what month we're in. At the beginning, I didn't have my why.

And then after a while, you have your great clients, and then you have the clients, you're like, I'm never fucking doing that again. Like, no, no chance. Right? It's why I don't do weddings, babies, families, right?

I don't do any of that stuff because, like, you, I'm a portrait artist. I take portraits of adults. But your, Your approach, not.

Not you, but like the client's approach to what a portrait means could be personal branding, headshots, boudoir. It could be anything. I am there as your portrait artist to create that for you.

You know, everything that you were in saying, I just wish I heard more people be that introspective with themselves to say, why am I doing this? What's my intention? So I really.

I like the fact that you even gave it thought and that you have some, you know, guiding principles for you as you, as you work through all of this.

Speaker C: 01:01:53

Well, this came out of a necessity because I was deeply depressed when I was Covid and I wasn't allowed to work. And I just. We did some small things for clients, mostly coaches who did video workshops that they could sell online.

And it was just like, quality wise, it was good, of course, but like, intellectually wise as a filmmaker. It was, of course, the lowest one ever. I'm just like. So I just thought, I can go on like this, right?

You know, And I felt I don't want to do movies anymore. Me, a movie lover. I was devastated because I was afraid. I said, how? How can I earn a living if I don't like what I do anymore?

I never had that in my life. And I thought, I'm not good at anything else. Just fucking stupid. But I was in that pipe in that time.

So I did photography before, but just as a little, like a little parsley next to the schnitzel. The schnitzel was always film. And then you had. Yeah, okay, well, we also can take some pictures once we're here and the lighting is already done.

And then it came to that. And I cannot ignore my cinematic story, love.

Oliver Lozano: 01:03:06

I just.

Speaker C: 01:03:07

It's like once it's in you, you cannot just do normal things. I just want to have a little picture that went, and I'm wrong for you. But you need the guts to say that.

And you also need a little money on the side to say that, because otherwise it's, it's stupid. But when you start out with these things, you gotta earn your spurs. And then you just realize the way unfolds while you walk it.

You can't sit there and think about, okay, who I wanna work with. Work, do it, realize who you love, what you don't like.

And every experience is good because it will just like it will fine tune your compass so you can't do anything wrong by doing something. That's. That's my advice. Usually for beginners. And I just do it, do it. And also do some cheap stuff. Why not?

I also did some TFP things just to level up my portfolio. And I invested never much in gear, actually. I always invested in myself in a kind of workshops with my idols.

So I spent thousands of euros to have this. But it pumped up my portfolio like this.

And this gave me the possibilities, the trust, all these things that I needed for higher, higher, higher, Higher quality, higher value and better projects. So I would never buy expensive gear in the beginning. Buy workshops with people, life, that's what I don't buy books, don't buy anything.

Go to the people you love, pay them, learn from them. That's an accelerator. That's your. How do you call this in the Fast and the Furious, this gas they put in.

Oliver Lozano: 01:04:44

Nitrous. Yeah, nitrous, yes. When I got started, it was exactly the same. I invested more in education.

Thousand classes all the time, just education, education, education. Because I knew enough about myself that I'm like, I suck at this and it's going to take me a long time. So how do I not suck as much?

You know, you find your mentors, the people that resonate with you. You know, I found sue and Felix and the whole like portrait masters world.

I had looked around and I couldn't find the people doing the work that I wanted to do. I found a lot of good photographers that their style just didn't resonate with me.

It felt very: 1990

So I landed where I landed, and then I invested all my time and energy and money into learning that until I felt comfortable enough with my own skills that I could build. You have told me that you are taking your show on the road and you're crossing the pond and you're going from Stuttgart to Florida.

You're going to be moving to the U.S. is that correct?

Speaker C: 01:05:52

Well, if I get the permission and everything, yeah. The process has already started. I want to move to Tampa, Florida, for several reasons. And I always. I was. I was a big critic of the United States.

I'm Mexican, you know, we're neighbors, but. But I always. When I was there, I always felt very free. And I love the space and I love the opportunities.

There's a lot of things I have lots of questions about, but also the other way around. So I just love that there's so much to see.

And so, I mean, all the culture I love, the music, the movies, it's all American, usually a little European, of course, as well. Mexican, yes. But basically it's American. And the whole art nouveau and art deco of the United States, the old saloons.

I come there and I have friends who lived there since they were born, and I see something, I say, wow, look at this. And I take a picture and I show it to them. They say, where the hell did you see that? I said, just, yeah, I walked there since 20 years.

I never saw that. And that's. I have a fresh view on old things, you know. And the same happens when I'm. When I receive guests from the States here.

I just had Angela here, Anderson, you know, her, I love. Her husband was there as well, Derek. And he told me the same experience he had with her.

So we went to Prague, we went to Berlin and to Dresden, and I was there several times, but through her, she was never there. So it's through this. The kid in the amusement park is my favorite metaphor. I just saw it again, New. I saw it from another perspective.

And so I love to receive guests, but that's the reason why I wanted to go to the States. And I went several times, and now there was the decision to do that. And I hope it will work out. I know it will work out.

Hope always has a little bit of doubt, doesn't it? Yeah, no, I know it will work out because I will do everything possible. And so far, anything I wanted, I had it.

Oliver Lozano: 01:07:51

That's great.

Speaker C: 01:07:52

One way or another. And it's not arrogance. It's just. I don't know if it's lucky. Or if it's just because I really, really wanted it.

Or maybe my radar is good enough to say, okay, this is for you. And this is not.

Oliver Lozano: 01:08:02

Well, I, I think you again, you focus with intention. You know, this is what I want.

Speaker C: 01:08:10

Look inside here I have a little, I have a little chimpanzee in a car riding around like in the circus like this. So, so much for focus. Sometimes he throws an anchor.

Oliver Lozano: 01:08:24

Oh, that's funny. That's funny.

Speaker C: 01:08:26

But thank you that I have this impression.

Oliver Lozano: 01:08:30

So one question that I. That kind of popped into my head. You were talking about old Hollywood. You were talking about, you know, your, your whole life in cinema.

Was there one in particular?

As you were growing up and seeing at your grand aunt cinema all these different movies, Was there one that really just has been your favorite movie year in, year out? This is the thing that I can point back to and say, this movie changed my life.

Speaker C: 01:08:55

Well, there are several movies that influenced me in very, very deep, like in a big variety, lots of shades. My personal life, my, my artist life, my sexual life, all of that.

Oliver Lozano: 01:09:12

So totally different movies. Yes.

Speaker C: 01:09:15

No, actually just one rabbit. Oh, geez. But, well, I wanted to become a musician also. You know, I played rock. I played rock and roll. I'm a singer, I'm a piano player.

I played the batteries. Not the batteries, the drum. Yeah, and guitar, like that. So I. There were movies like Back to the Future where he plays Johnny B. Goode.

Where I was, I was five. Actually. I was thinking of that. No, it was fifth grade. I was 10. And we had our first. I had my first band, the Funny Kids we were called.

And we made a cover. We made a cover of just three guys. I was playing the piano. We had Heiko at the drums. And Alex was at the big trombone, the big one, that's the band.

And we had four girls from the jazz dance club and they were dancing to Johnny B. Goode and to Hugh Lewis's Power of Love. And then, you know, the funny thing was I saw.

I mean it was at the time, kids, when you listen to this, we had a video recorded when I was way older. But you just saw something in cinema and you couldn't see it again anywhere.

Oliver Lozano: 01:10:20

Right, right.

Speaker C: 01:10:21

So then I was at the, at the big summer fest in Sherby Shah where I was raised up, and they played Johnny B. Goode. So I. Since I can recognize melodies fast, I went there and said, hey, this song that you played, who, who is it from?

I mean, now you can just google it. You Know, Google it.

Oliver Lozano: 01:10:36

Sure.

Speaker C: 01:10:36

Oh, they said Chuck Berry. And I wrote it down. Chuck Berry, Okay. I never understood the Marvin Berry. Hey, Chuck, this is your cousin.

Oliver Lozano: 01:10:46

Listen.

Speaker C: 01:10:46

Never got this until I was 20. Then I went to the record store and I. I said, I want to have this. Yeah, there oldies. Yeah, this movie is a year old, you know, I didn't know.

So I went there and I had the record and it was Chuck Berry. I said this grandpa. I was expecting Michael J. Fox, of course, you know, And I put it on and I was the sweet little 16 rollover.

Beat everything, you know, Maybelline, all these cool songs. And then I was listening to it constantly. And I was. I was playing it all the time.

So this was one the fabulous Baker Boys, Roger Rabbit, all these songs played the Blues Brothers, of course. All this went into my musical thing. But also the. I was a huge fan always of very elegant, masculine gentlemen.

Sean Connery, Cary Grant, also like the softer guys like James Stewart, you know. And so this all had influence on me. But there's not a movie where photographers are represented in a nice way.

Because usually in films there are creeps. Oh, I'll make a star of you. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's horrible how they picked us. Austin Powers has this.

Oh, I'm not even looking at the camera. That's just funny to me. And also, all the movie producers are usually assholes in movies because I guess the writers don't get paid pretty well.

So their enemy is the ones who don't pay them well, which is the producers. So if anyone knows a good movie about photographers, hit me with it. I would love to see one.

But all this storytelling just resonated with me a lot that it was that the Last Unicorn was a movie. I had deep impact on me as a child. And the Sting was a movie. Rob Redford and Paul Newman. My God, is there a movie where guys look better?

Oliver Lozano: 01:12:26

No, the wardrobe budget for that alone.

Speaker C: 01:12:30

Good. You know, the music, Scott Chopping. I was playing the Rag Times because of that. So the music that I loved came usually from movies that I saw.

Aristocats, Everybody Wants to Be a Cat, the Jungle Book, you know, all this jazzy swing music that came. The Swing Kids. Well, a movie that was absolutely like changing my life was Great Balls of Fire with Dennis Quaid as Jerry Lewis.

I was 10 or something when I saw it. And at that time, you know, it was in the. It was the beginning of the 90s.

There was guns N Roses and there was Bon Jovi and An Aerosmith and every cool guy had a guitar, but I know the nerds were behind the keyboards. And I never played keyboard. I was a piano player, man. So I saw this guy putting his Rampiano on fire and playing it like he was losing his soul.

And I said, that's what I want to do. And I didn't know that it was being on stage.

I didn't know that it meant being maybe someone who just exposes himself to inspire something in others or maybe someone who provokes. Yeah. And also I love to play that song, of course.

And, and last year I was in Memphis and I was at, at the Sun Record Studios and I was crying like a baby.

I was sitting at Jerry Lewis's piano, the one he touched, and I was playing Crazy Arms, you know, and, and, oh, I just, I never felt like I, I had the microphone in my hand used and Elvis and, and, and Johnny Cash and all this Americana, which is so deeply rooted in me. And I was in heaven at that day.

Oliver Lozano: 01:14:13

That's one of those moments that you just don't forget, you know, all that history. I wanted on stage as well.

Speaker C: 01:14:18

I saw Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Jerry Lewis on stage together in late 90s. They were 200 and something years altogether. And it was a constant orgasm for me. I was like this, like I was in the limb. I, I touch the gods.

For me, those things have huge influence on me. And not necessarily like how I make my pictures, but how I create the emotions I want to show. So if that makes any sense, these.

Oliver Lozano: 01:14:49

Are the things that I love. We can all say we're artists and that we've got influence here, but you can hear the passion.

You can hear how much cinema meant to you, can hear how much music means to you. You can hear all these things. And as you pull little influences from each one of them, start to understand your style more. Right.

I started this whole conversation not really understanding how you produce what you produce. An hour and a half later, I'm now getting that whole picture. It's this lifelong pursuit of passion.

I'd love to say you're the Jerry Lee Lewis of photography. You've been able to pull from all these influences in your life and create the style.

And it's very clear to me now as I look at them, I'm like, oh, yeah, there's that influence. There's the musical influence, there's the cinematic influence, there's the old Hollywood, there's the mute, like all of these different features.

And sometimes we're in it so deeply we don't necessarily see that for ourselves. You were saying something earlier about photographing guys a little bit differently. There's always that Cary Grant class.

It's not just about making a guy look good or macho or have the perfect hair or whatnot. You're producing this strong side of men that doesn't really get captured a lot.

A lot of great photographs, don't get me wrong, it's 50 of the population, right? Is men. Don't get me wrong, there's, there's great photographs of men out there, but the consistent quality.

I can see why men would come to you to be like, make me look like Cary Grant. And you have the ability to do that. You're not going on Pinterest going, oh God, what does Sean Connery look like?

You know, you're able to pull that out of guys. And it just comes from this life of watching cinema, watching film, understanding what you like and what you don't like.

So as I try to land this plane, what's one thing that people should know about you that I haven't explored here?

Speaker C: 01:16:50

Who? I'm not sure. I mean, as you say, I love elegance. I love elegance and I love this masculine male elegance that was lost in the 60s, I would say.

I mean we have guys like, you know, Hugh Jackman and Jude Law, they're also, also 50 already and, and I just don't like when people have sweatpants on and just, it's just, you know, fashion is a statement. And yes, it's nice to be convenient and it's nice to, you know, just, just lay around in your undies or something.

But if guys would just not walk around like 15 year old, 14 year olds and would be a little bit more elegant, it just does something to you. I mean men are not used to be the object of desire also. They're not used to that.

I mean, how many compliments do you, I mean you're a good looking guy, I guess you get a lot of compliments. But women are usually like flooded with compliments. Some are good, some are cheesy, some are not meant for real.

But guys, unless your mom tells you, oh, you're such a sweet boy, you don't even have enough, I guess, I guess that's, I guess that's a lack sometimes. And so when they come to me and they just want to be seen as well as women, they just don't allow themselves that much.

And the American culture is very like militarized, macho guy, defender. And yes, of course we are bigger, we're stronger it's our. It's our thing to defend. It's our thing to solve problems.

We really are very different from women, but we're valid. I mean, we're 50%, you know, and there's a lot of assholes, but there's a lot of awesome, beautiful guys.

And I just would love that they discover that in them. And then the whole point about just also being an object of desire, having this erotic note with them also, a guy can shoot a guy. Don't worry.

It doesn't make you gay. Don't worry. You know, this whole afraid of being gay. My God, guys, kittens is also very, very strong over there. Here is a little bit.

But I don't care. I love to play with it.

Oliver Lozano: 01:18:55

Right?

Speaker C: 01:18:56

Funny. And then I had a guy who had incredible outfits and he had stilettos on.

And I had myself dragged up as a woman because I just wanted to know how I look like. I expected to look a little bit more like RuPaul, but, man, I was more like. Missed out fires. Anyway, but man, the torture. Only one and a half hours.

That's why I always pay at the first date at least, because I know how much they put, how much work done. I got 10 minutes and I'm done. You know, take endless hours. So much work. And I just.

I just think if you get really down to what you want, what you like, and. And also coming back to boudoir and erotica, what you really like.

Like, don't be afraid of a physical wish or don't be afraid of living your desire or, yeah, the word fetish, whatever. Just have that with a photographer of your trust and just explore this side of you. Don't have to be ashamed of it. It can give you a lot of strength.

This whole ignoring anything that is body and physical because people are afraid of being objectified and just enjoy it. You know, if we all would have more sex, the whole world would be more peaceful. Yeah. And if you're not horny, you're not healthy, period.

That's what I say. So just don't be. Don't say it's something bad. Even if you go to church, you can have fun in bed and all these. This very, like the strict things.

I don't like this. And then we're back to the whole topic of stereotypes that we started with and boxes and Experiment with yourself.

You have one life in this construction, and then you go back into the stream of the stardust, and you might come back again as something completely different. Enjoy the ride. Enjoy the ride. There's a quote, do you know that? By George Bernard Shaw?

It says, this is the true joy in life, to be used for a purpose, recognized by yourself as a mighty one, to be a force of nature, instead of feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community and that as long as I live, it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can.

I want to be thoroughly used up when I die. For the harder I work, the more I live. I rejoice in life for its own sake. Life is no brief candle to me.

It is a sort of splendid torch which I have got a hold of for a moment, and I want to make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations. And it touched me a lot because that's the thing. What are you saving up for?

I know so many people who in their 20s, 30s, 40s, said, yeah, well, when I'm retired, I'll do this. And then in German we say, their asshole snaps at 50 something, you know?

Oliver Lozano: 01:21:59

Yeah.

Speaker C: 01:22:00

And they have a God trust that they will achieve that age. And then there's another picture, it's so beautiful in Vienna. There's the condagliere, and in front is sitting an old couple and they're like this.

That's why you should travel when you're young. Take the bull by the horns and do whatever the hell you want to. No one's asking, no one cares about it, no one cares for real.

And I think that's liberating. So that's my message.

Oliver Lozano: 01:22:28

It's been so much fun talking to you in this way over the past hour and a half, and I can't wait for people to hear this because again, hearing someone else following what they want to do gives so many other people permission to do the same thing for themselves. And all it takes is a little bit of self confidence and just knowing that, like you said, you got this one chance to do it, so do whatever you want.

I love, love, love that sentiment. Ollie, thank you.

I can't wait till you're in the States when we get a chance to do this over a bottle of wine or several and sit down and I'll come see you in Florida or wherever you might be. We're going to make this happen in person. So thank you.

Speaker C: 01:23:12

Thank you very much. And I can't wait for you to be guest in wine podcast. And I will not talk too much.

Oliver Lozano: 01:23:22

I'll make up for it on the other side. I'll do my whole just talk talk, and you can sit back for having me.

Speaker C: 01:23:28

It was wonderful, man. Absolutely. Thank you very much.

Oliver Lozano: 01:23:31

You got it, brother. I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.

Speaker C: 01:23:33

Thank you.