Ep. 040 - Jean Carlo Penaloza: Becoming an Outspoken Artist

Matt Stagliano: 00:00:39

All right, let's be real.

There are a lot of photographers out there, but every now and then you meet someone who's not just taking pictures, but actually doing something bigger. Someone who sees photography as more than just a business or a craft. They see it as a conversation. And that's Giancarlo Penalosa.

Giancarlo's journey started in IT consulting, because of course, nothing says future photographer like corporate tech.

But he did it anyway, starting first with headshots, then exploring underwater portraits, and now he's quickly becoming a name in the podcasting world with the Outspoken Artist. It's a platform that gives a voice to underrepresented creatives, and you know how near and dear that is to me.

He's a guy that understands the power of connection, whether it's through his branding, his photography, or even something as simple as a well placed voice. Note to a friend. It's so nice to talk to someone that you have so much in common with.

And we cover a ton of ground, like the balance between creativity and business, how AI is shaking up the industry, and the importance of controlling your own narrative.

We also talk about how he views photo conferences and his big plans for Shutterfest, why human connection still beats algorithms every time, and how leaving a legacy through storytelling might just be the most important thing that any of us can do. This conversation is equal parts business, creativity, and a little bit of tech nerdery.

So if you're looking for any of those things, you're in the right place. I really enjoyed talking shop with Giancarlo, and I know you're going to like listening to him too.

So for this latest episode of Generator, let's get on with the show. I'll probably have to put lower thirds up because people are going to confuse two handsome men with beards.

So I'm gonna say I'm the guy on the left, Giancarlo is on the right. Just for all the crowds that are absorbed by your visage.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:02:59

Like a black and white thing going on right now.

Matt Stagliano: 00:03:01

Yeah, right. We're negatives. I dig it. You have the really well lit studio and I'm kind of in my little dark cave.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:03:07

We like blue, though, you know? We like blue.

Matt Stagliano: 00:03:09

You know, I've got these govee bulbs in, like the lights that are around here. I just can love my phone.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:03:16

I love those things.

Matt Stagliano: 00:03:17

Yeah, and they're great. And I keep them everywhere and, you know, super cheap. Throw them in the lights and it's great to just be able to dim things down.

I live alone, so it looks like a nightclub in here half the time. Good to have you here, man. I know we've kind of been circling around each other, but haven't really had the chance to sit down and chat.

So I'm really excited to be able to do this because there aren't a whole lot of podcasters in our world at the moment, a lot of photography podcasts. But like, I want to talk to you kind of all about getting into this world and how you got into it, what you're thinking about it.

You know, just kind of go from top to bottom. I'm really focused on how you want to be creative moving forward. Right. How are you defining your voice?

So before we get into any of that, that's just kind of where I think we'll be heading with this.

Why don't you give everybody just a short Cliff Notes, post it version of what you were doing before, how you got into photography, videography, and now podcasting.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:04:19

Do I start? I think like most photographers, I started in the event space. Yeah, I predominantly started with the Spanish market.

I did quinceaneras, weddings and things like that. I really serviced the Mexican market because I'm in Florida and it really helped me to kind of just get my feet wet into it.

Then I started expanding and I doing weddings and weddings and weddings. And eventually I said no more weddings because it's too much. It was too much for me. I also didn't have any training. Everything was self taught.

I think I got lucky more times than not when it came to weddings and when I almost missed that one pivotal moment of photographing a couple having that first kiss. That in itself was like, nope, I can't. Too much stress, so I need to move into the studio. And that led me into portrait work.

And then I started doing a lot of cosplay work for a while and I photographed a lot of cosplayers and it allowed me to be sort of more creative with my lighting, creating with my setting, because the individuals themselves were already dressed, they're already prepped, primed, they're already in character. I just needed to add that complimentary lighting, the complimentary mood, and it allowed me to do that.

And that's where I really explored more of my fine art type of photography. Fine art wasn't paying that much at the time, so never does. I moved to headshots and headshots started paying a little bit more.

And then I tapped into the headshot volume market and that is really where I've kind of been for a little bit. And I like it. It's simple. It's a system.

You build a system that either you yourself can do, you can train someone to do, and provide a really good experience for your client. And I like that because they're impressed by the fact that I can knock out all these headshots in short amount of time.

And that's what I've been doing. Artistically, though, I love underwater portraits. That's the thing. I haven't. Yeah, I haven't done it in three years. Like, holy crap, three years.

I used to have access to a poll, and it allowed me to do portraits a little bit easier, but I've not done it, man, in like, three years. And that's. That's where I. That's where I hope to go next artistically.

And as for the podcast, the podcast is an interesting artistic outlet because it feeds my. My extroverted side where I like to talk to people. I. It's like a social experiment to figure out, you know, who are the people behind their art.

Right. There's always those cookie cutter questions like, well, what started you to do photography and whatnot and et cetera?

And most people leave it at that one singular level. They never go beyond it. I'm just curious to see, like, why did you go down this path? Art is not an easy. It's not an easy career.

It's not an easy journey to go through. And it intrigues me as to the.

Matt Stagliano: 00:06:49

Why you always been creative? Like, have you always been visual or musical or kind of nerdy in this space?

Did you have an outlet as a kid where you were doing some of this stuff and now it's just matured into what you're doing now? Or was it something a little bit later in life that you discovered you love doing?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:07:10

I feel that if I tap in to my memory far back, I think there's always some sort of artistic leanings, and I attribute a lot of that to my mom. My mom is very artistic in her own fashion, always dabbling. And we're from. I was born in Venezuela. We're born all in Venezuela.

She would do a lot of things with her hands. She would restore vintage dolls.

She would take these American Girl dolls and literally wash them, bathe them, make them, like brand new, repurpose anything, pottery and whatnot. So I always grew up with her doing something with her hands, always creating something. For me, it started with band in high school.

So when you said nerdy, that's definitely part of it, right? I played the saxophone. I loved it. I loved just how all these groups of people put together created this, this masterwork, and I loved it from there.

I think it's just, if it wasn't short films, if it wasn't photos, it was either Photoshop, it was creating worlds. I don't know. It's always been some sort of desire to create something out of nothing.

Matt Stagliano: 00:08:08

How do you pay the bills?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:08:09

I do consulting, man. I do IT consulting and data analytics. Anything to do with data. I'm really good with data and helping businesses just be better at what they do.

Matt Stagliano: 00:08:20

How are you balancing that?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:08:21

Right.

Matt Stagliano: 00:08:21

So.

And the reason I asked that, and it sounds like I'm, I'm kind of interviewing you for a job and it's more so like I love digging in and figuring out, all right, is there a thread in there that led you to this point? Right. So I have a very similar backstory. And I am where I am now. Never thought I'd be doing podcasts or photography, but have always done radio.

Have all I was, I've been doing some level of podcast since the late 90s, and so doing all of this, it just seems like a natural course. But I never set out to do it. So I'm always curious as to how people wind up where they are. Right.

The reason I ask about paying the bills is some people are like, straight up, business does everything and it's great. Some people are like, the artistic stuff is just my outlet. It's the way that I deal with my TPS reports and all the data analytics or whatever it is.

Right. And it's, it's my outlet for that. I've been a consultant in the past. It wasn't a world that I wanted to stay in very long.

Pay is great, but I like being my own boss. I don't know if I could ever go back. How are you feeling about volume headshots, podcasting? Is that where you're hoping to go full time?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:09:39

I would say yes. And the reason I say that with confidence now is because, have you asked me, like a year and a half ago because you asked me, how do I balance it?

Matt Stagliano: 00:09:47

Right, right.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:09:47

And that's a, that's an interesting question because about a year and a half ago or more, I would have said it was utter chaos. And my wife will tell you it's just trying to manage everything, trying to split my time. Sacrifices had to be made and there was no order.

So it was challenging. I mean, I, I, I started fairly messy. I think it's just important to start.

But now, something that's interesting about podcasting Is that it forced me to have to be organized.

Matt Stagliano: 00:10:12

Yeah.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:10:13

Something that I never was. If you look at my calendar now, I was never a calendars guy.

Now everything's organized, everything's itemized and it's the only way that I can manage everything.

Because if I want to make sure that I'm supposed to be where I'm supposed to be for home, for my kids, for work, and then if I want to make time to talk to people, I had to organize myself. So that's how I've been able to balance it. It's by given up on things that I used to do. I would play video games before they were fun and whatnot.

But it's either play video games or podcasts. You start to find a balance and it's enjoyable. It's a different type of enjoyable.

I do see myself being more so pushing towards that full time artist. But the only way I can achieve that is by being a great businessman too.

And I'm taking all my collective knowledge of not only what I've learned through corporate, but also what I've learned through my own experience as an entrepreneur to be able to pull that off because anybody can really get the training to take a beautiful picture, beautiful piece of work, but you still got to pay.

Matt Stagliano: 00:11:08

The bills 100% right. YouTube University is a thing and anybody can learn to really do what we do.

I find it interesting when folks transfer from corporate to creative because there always tends to be a personality type when they make the bridge crossing to the creative side. Right, right. The dark side.

When they move over to creative, they've got habits and thoughts and processes and workflows from being in a corporate environment that can either bode really well for your business or can hinder you because it's so rigid and structured in an industry that is very fluid, I find. So have you been able to stay self aware enough to know?

All right, this is coming straight from corporate and I'm trying to implement that into my business.

Or are you able to separate them out completely and do things in your creative work that are not necessarily influenced by how you operate in your corporate world?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:12:11

It's an interesting one. I would say most times I can separate the two. Yeah, I'm influenced. I'm influenced by what I like in terms of systems. I'm a systems guy deep down.

So when I see something that works or certain patterns, certain behaviors or certain cadences of things, I like to implement them. And if I can implement them in my work, I'll definitely do that.

I also have A really small circle of, close circle of friends, my wife as well, that help me kind of see things a little bit different. Like if I'm going too much artistic and not thinking about the business side, they may pull me in a little bit and say, hey, don't forget about this.

Or vice versa. It's like, hey, don't forget you're an artist. You're not just this guy.

So it's like a mixture of my own self check and the people around me that help ground me and keep focus as to whether I'm doing one versus the other. Does that answer your question?

Matt Stagliano: 00:12:57

It does. No, it really does. The reason I ask is I have certainly been over influenced by my corporate days to the point of being a bit too rigid.

Not necessarily as, as fluid in my business as I'd like. I overthink a lot, right. Because I want everything to be perfect and polished as if I were sending it up the chain. Right? Right.

So I've got like this PTSD, this PowerPoint trauma, right, where I've just learned everything's gotta be on a slide and it's, it's gotta be packaged perfectly. Even the podcast. Right.

I'm sending out, you know, workflows with letters and invitations and calendars because I would be disorganized and it would be a mess otherwise.

So I'm always curious, just in that respect, do you balance it or are you an absolute lunatic like I am and just completely screwing up your creative business by trying to throw it into a spreadsheet? Right.

That leads me to the question of do you find that what you're doing with podcasting or what you're doing with your photography or your videography, do you find that you feel towards it a different way?

You feel like it's more personal projects and you don't have a lot of pressure to make a living from it, or do you put self imposed pressure on yourself to do it at a certain level at a high bar? Clearly I've seen your work, you do it very well.

But how much of that is self imposed pressure versus just kind of like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do. Done is better than perfect.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:14:25

It's interesting.

It's interesting because at this stage, Matt, the podcast is influencing my, I guess my consulting side because I am actually trying to figure out how, if I were to do corporate for a little bit longer, how can I leverage the skill set? I can talk to people, I can present myself on camera and whatnot.

So now, rather than focusing on the latest trends on technology, I'm actually trying to figure out, okay, so now as a consultant, could I be someone that is the presenter, the person in front of the camera for whatever company that I work for? And it, it's interesting, man.

It's interesting because I, I'm gravitating towards, for me, this podcast, the reason why I'm pushing the level as to why I wanted to be a certain way is because one is a challenge. I like, I like challenging myself to see what can I do better. But also I have a plan that I'm.

That I'm hitting towards not only from my, my corporate life, but also for the podcast life.

Because there's a lot on the horizon that I see as a potential opportunity where I can, quote, monetize this, but not in a fashion where I'm out there putting ads. Sure, I'll put ads and whatever, but it's different.

I'm actually trying to figure out how can I make a business out of this without selling out, if that makes any sense.

Matt Stagliano: 00:15:37

Thousand percent, thousand percent. And I'm trying not to make it about me, since you're the actual guest. The monetization piece.

I put together a course on podcasting last year and one of the sections of it was monetization, right? Because that's the big thing that everybody wants to know. And once they get past, you know, what gear do I use, what lights do I use?

The next thing is how do I make money doing this? Because it's going to be a huge time suck. People don't realize how much goes into actually producing a podcast, right?

It's easy to see on, on TikTok or whatnot, but there's a lot of shit that goes into it, especially when you're doing it yourself. I asked this question because monetization, I think there's the traditional view that you get sponsors.

In order to do that, you need a certain amount of numbers, listeners, right? Downloads in the first 24 hours, downloads in a week, right?

So you can show your metrics, give your media packet to whatever company and say, hey, would you be interested in sponsoring my show for X amount of dollars, right? Do some pay per click, whatever it might be. Traditional view, that's where everybody thinks they need to be.

There are so many more opportunities, memberships, subscriptions, put things behind a paywall, selling merch, selling your own services as a videographer or photographer, teaching people. And this is what popped into my head is when you were saying you were consulting.

One thing I've been considering and I haven't Put it out there so maybe we can kick this idea around. Is consulting for companies, smaller brands, maybe sub $5 million. Need some level of media training or camera training for things like zooms, Right.

I'm talking C suite, executive level folks that are going to be on camera or that are representing their brand if they don't know how to do it.

Do you feel like you could take some of your consulting skills, some of your creative skills and package it so that you're now consulting as a media agent, as a trainer for on screen presence? Do you feel like that would be a viable opportunity?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:17:42

I will say yes for two reasons. One, I'm test piloting because I got asked, hey, can you help me set up the podcast for the local chamber of commerce?

Matt Stagliano: 00:17:50

Sure.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:17:50

And in my head I'm like, sure, I can help you out. Why not? And ironically enough, I got an email from someone. I don't know who they are.

It could be just a false lead, but they're like, hey, we're looking to set up a podcast for this. Isn't that. How much do you charge for this? I do think there is a market for people who specialize. Again, specializing is key here, right?

If you specialize in saying, look, I target companies that are at this particular range and I help them, the C level executives, develop a podcast. I give them the training, I give them the tools. I basically get them all situated to roll out so they can start their podcast.

Because a lot of companies are doing the podcast route, whether it's only audio, whether it's video, whether it's zoom or whatnot. It's the way the market is moving because people are consuming information differently. Nobody really wants to read. Well, that's not fair.

People do like to read. I don't want to say nobody. People do like to read, but the vast majority of people don't have the attention span for it.

They're more likely to sit down and listen to someone or watch someone than to read an entire article about what's going on with the company. And it also puts the face of the leaders or whoever else they want to put in front of it in front of their employees.

So I do think there's a market there, Matt. And I mean, it's worth exploring, right? Why not?

Matt Stagliano: 00:19:03

Yeah, I think so. From the standpoint of, like, we're all kind of business owners, right? Some of us are full time, some of us are not.

So just kicking around the idea of maybe I'll start a business at some point, there's always the element of brand Marketing. So brand marketing is different than product marketing. It's different than advertising. It's different than.

There are so many silos in marketing your business.

One of them that I found in podcasting is the direct line of communication to your client that goes beyond the newsletter, that goes beyond what you do on social media for seven seconds.

It's a real way to connect with an audience and have them really understand a little bit more about who you are and what you stand for in what you're doing in the creative community. How are you finding that guests are utilizing the conversations that you're having with them? Do they.

Do you find that they're coming back and saying, oh, God, thank you for having me on, I got a bump here, or I got this client strictly because of your podcast.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:20:08

Do you.

Matt Stagliano: 00:20:08

Do you see anything like that yet?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:20:10

I don't think so. Not yet. As I'm too. I guess I'm still within, like, the first two years, so I haven't reached that milestone yet.

What I am getting, though, is I am getting a lot of feedback in regards to how the podcast interview made them feel, the fact that they felt heard and whatnot. And that drew me into an interesting perspective because before I was very standard, ask questions, do research and whatnot.

Then I started just talking to people. And I think that's the therapeutic aspect of being a podcaster, is that sometimes you just talk to people and.

And people are not talking to each other, or you interview someone that nobody would ever thought, like, nobody would ever ask me to be a guest on anything.

So you give them this once in a lifetime opportunity to be a part of the show or part of whatever it might be, the human element of it is what is driving me right now. Because down the road, I mean, we can talk metrics and whatnot. I don't know my metrics, man. I really don't. I don't really care.

I'm not there yet because I'm still. I'm still growing.

But what I do, what I do value, though, is we were talking about monetization earlier, the aspect of how important it is to meet people and talk to people and the value of knowing people. I don't know how you quantify that. I don't know how you measure that.

Because sure, you can get a brand sponsorship, but the fact that you bring someone into your show and you have a legitimate, honest conversation with them and they feel like, you know, both of you connected, now you have a business that you otherwise wouldn't have before, and I don't know how to measure that. But that to me right now is where I'm at.

The value of the podcast is with the growth that is getting and the people that I'm meeting, such as yourself. And I think that aspect of podcasting in the early stages is what's been extremely, extremely surprising and rewarding.

Matt Stagliano: 00:21:50

I found the same thing. You get to talk to people, you know, certain folks, but when you get to have a very focused, in depth conversation, not only do you.

I learn something from everybody that I talk to. Right. And it's always eye opening. If I don't agree with them, it's still wonderful to hear what they're saying.

I've been fortunate in the fact that most of my guests are really rad people, unbelievable artists, and it's great to hear from people that I idolize. But I find this to be a modern day networking that is really just the regular conversations that we all have.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:22:26

Right.

Matt Stagliano: 00:22:27

But we're putting it out there.

What I found when I started Generator was that the conversations that I was having with my friends were not being heard anywhere else, but I was having the same conversation with everybody about what was happening in our lives as creatives. The struggle with small business bullshit in the industry, whatever it was, there's always something there.

That, that is the common thread, but we're not talking about it. And I wanted to provide a place where we could have these honest conversations, be vulnerable, talk about the struggles.

It's opened up a world of opportunity and it's the best thing I think I ever did. Personal project, not monetized. I just love doing this to deliver something in the market that I hadn't seen.

Not to say that it doesn't exist, but I live kind of in a vacuum, so I didn't know. I didn't see anything out there like this. The conversations that I'm seeing other podcasters have are incredible.

I love seeing the way that you so quickly connect with your guests. And I wanted to ask you about that, especially when you're at a place like Imaging. Right? You were just at Imaging?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:23:41

Oh, yeah.

Matt Stagliano: 00:23:42

Were you in the. Was it the Geek Otto booth? Is that.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:23:44

It was, yeah. Geekoto Geoto sponsor me to be there and showcase some of their stuff. And great, great equipment. Great equipment. Chaotic environment.

I think we were behind. I was behind or in front of Evoto and they had so many people there. It was so loud. But audio gets cleaned and it sounds beautiful.

But it was a wonderful opportunity to be in the middle of the chaos and try to figure out how to make this thing work.

Matt Stagliano: 00:24:09

I was watching some of the interviews that I'd seen you post online and, like, the, you know, snippets here and there and whatnot. And it seemed like one, you're having a great time, which is the whole point of this.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:24:18

Right? Right.

Matt Stagliano: 00:24:19

To. I love seeing the people that you're interviewing.

Now, did you line all those up ahead of time, or was it just kind of like you'd see somebody on the floor and be like, hey, I got to do this thing. You want to be on the thing with me? Where were you with your. Yeah.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:24:33

Every event was different, Right. First imaging, I try to coordinate with people, and I had, like, 10 people lined up. I ended up having 16.

Then I went to another conference where I scheduled everybody, and that all got thrown all over the place, and it just kind of worked. Imaging. For some reason, I said, okay, this is my first time in a trade show. Let me just wing it. That's really what it was.

I'm going to go there, I'm going to set it up, and then it's up to me to work the room to try to figure out. And then the moment I start interviewing people, hopefully that brings more people.

And of course, the people that know me or have been on my show are also helping me try to find different guests and whatnot. And that's kind of what I did. And it was. It was wonderful.

Man, it worked out so well because then I had people bringing others to my show, and I never met these people. Like Paulina Waltney, phenomenal, phenomenal artist. Yeah, I. I literally, like, here's Johnny Guerrero passing. Like, you need to interview her.

I'm like, okay. I'm like, great to meet you. And then she starts talking. I have not seen her work, but just by the way she's explaining, I am blown away.

And it's only after the fact that I see what she did that I'm just captivated even more so. So it was all on the fly, Matt. I got 14 people at the end.

Matt Stagliano: 00:25:44

That's rad, dude. And how long was kind of each. Each sit down 10, 15 minutes, an.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:25:49

Hour, I think, no, God, I cannot do an hour anymore. I tend to keep them at 15 to 20 minutes.

It's a nice little sweet spot where you can just connect long enough with people and build that rapport and get, like, an honest, true, human story out of them versus what they're used to talking about. And I think every person that I interviewed had a great time. There was one in particular, Alex Arnett. They they call him the photo guy at ppa.

Did you know that? I interviewed him. And nobody has interviewed him before. He's been a PPA for God knows how many years. And I'm like, are you serious?

Nobody interviewed him. Like, this guy, this guy takes everybody's pictures. He had a wonderful story to tell.

And I started asking people about their personal projects because some of, some of us do it, some of us don't. And it's fascinating to see what people either when they start to think, I'm like, wow, I've been in the studio for like, God knows how long.

I haven't even done anything artistic for a while.

Who knows, maybe it plants the seed that is going to cause them to maybe stay, like, step out of their business and just be an artist for a little bit again.

Matt Stagliano: 00:26:51

It's a bit intimidating to think about doing a podcast at, on a trade show floor. I've done it before.

I did it before when I was in the previous industry, when I was in the defense industry at a conference called Shot show and I was there with one of the magazines that I was writing for called Skillset. We did a podcast. Watching it all try to come together and you're battling WI Fi issues and noise and people just wandering by onto set.

They're tapping on the microphone or annoying you or speaking loudly and cursing behind you, right? It's sheer chaos. You being able to manage that is a feat in and of itself.

I don't think people understand just how much it takes to keep a focused conversation with all that shit going on around you. So kudos to you for even making that happen.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:27:36

Thank you, man. Thank you.

Matt Stagliano: 00:27:37

What was the big takeaway for you in producing a podcast like that in a chaotic environment, in a loud environment where you're just trying to connect with someone in 15 minutes? How did you manage that aspect?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:27:51

Oh my God. I can. I can tell you a few things. One, you're going to make mistakes and that, you got to be okay with that, right?

You're going to, you're going to screw up somewhere. There was one interview I recorded where I forgot to record a video.

So I have to re record and it happens, but at least I have an audio version of it when it comes to the noise, thankfully big headsets helped to isolate some of that and it does help, but it's still, it's still pretty dang loud. You mentioned WI Fi. WI Fi was a big one. I went there with the game plan, like, I'm going to go live on Instagram. I'm going to go live on Facebook.

I'm going to go live on YouTube. They had 2.1Mbps Internet there.

Matt Stagliano: 00:28:23

It was shared by a thousand people.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:28:26

Yeah. It was not going to happen so quickly either. You do two things right.

Either you bitch and complain and say, oh, my God, this is not going to work, or do you have to pivot? I'm like, all right, fine. No live streaming means that there's one less thing I have to worry about breaking. So quickly moved away from that.

Beyond that, I mean, I definitely learned a lot of things of how I would set up for the next one.

So next one, I'm going to a shutter fest and I'm going to have a little bit more freedom as to set up however I want because I'll be using my gear and whatnot. And which should be fine. There you go. Is great. But also my gear is great, too.

Matt Stagliano: 00:28:57

Sure.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:28:58

And this time around, though, I'm going to record myself setting up because I have an interest. I think people are always asking me, like, how do you set this up and whatnot? I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to put my little pocket three, just record and show people. Like, this is what I do. This is how it works. A little bit light here, a little bit light here, and just do it.

Matt Stagliano: 00:29:14

It's a lot simpler than people think. It can be infinitely more complicated than people think.

But I think being able to do it, one camera where you can cut between angles, a couple of good microphones, little bit of light, and now you've got yourself a production stage. From a technical standpoint. Yeah, you forgot to record a video, whatever. Right. You got the audio. You're doing things kind of on a budget now.

How long did it take you to kind of figure out your setup?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:29:39

I think about a year. So from the first imaging to then going to peculiar and then going to imaging again and doing all these different things, I brought a lot of gear.

Like most photographers, I brought way too much crap. Yeah. Like, I have my gigantic production manager case. That's what I brought to, like, I think, imaging. And it was insane.

And then on the next one, I brought. It was too much. I brought way too much crap. I even have a little hand truck that I carry with me so I don't mess up my back, because I am.

I'm not doing that again. So I can walk, I can bend. I don't want to mess up my back again. After, like about a year, I kind of figure out, okay, so this is what I need.

Stop bringing so much shit. You know, just. Just bring what you need. And can I curse here, by the way? Oh, yeah.

Matt Stagliano: 00:30:17

Oh, 100%.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:30:17

Okay, good, good, good. All right. I just. I just brought way too much crap. Way too much crap. So after a year, I kind of figured out, okay, so this is what I need.

And even for Shutterfest, I already know exactly what I'm bringing. And I had to stop myself from buying more crap like, oh, look at this new shiny light. I'm like, stop. You have enough crap.

I'm donating stuff to schools now because I have way too much crap. So it took a. It took a year to streamline it, to make it simple.

Now it's just a matter of worrying about the important aspect of it, which is just talking to people. So once I have a set up, people don't understand the power of cameras.

K and you're doing a: 1080

I think I'm going to incorporate a second camera on the next one, but I won't break my back over it if it doesn't work out.

Matt Stagliano: 00:31:10

I've tried all the different types. I've done the 4K single camera cutting angles. I've done two cameras. I've done a three camera shoot. Mixing camera brands. I don't advise that at all.

And when I have the capability, I love dedicating cameras to angles. That being said, 99% of my podcasts are done like this virtually.

You know, I can cut between angles here, but for the most part, I like this style in person. I'm like, you try to keep the gear list small so that there are fewer variables to just screw up because inevitably something will go wrong.

So I love the fact that you have learned minimalism over the year.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:31:54

Because I can tell you one more thing though, before I forget. People have embraced and like the fact that I show my mistakes.

Because you mentioned perfection right, Way back in the beginning, what we're talking about. Yeah, the business side of perfection and then the photographer side of perfection, where, when we're.

When you're a portrait photographer that does fine art, you like crap being the way that you want it to be, so it works the way that you want it. I spent so long trying to be perfect at my launch, trying to make sure everything looked great. The Right. Camera, the light, this, like this.

People are okay. When you make mistakes, it's fine if you see the microphone, nobody really cares anymore. So if that's stopping anybody from doing anything.

If you're trying to create a podcast and you're worried that you're going to make a mistake, you're going to make a mistake. Even the seasoned professionals are going to make mistakes. And it's. It's key, man. It's absolutely key. And just own it. Own your mistakes. Dang it.

Matt Stagliano: 00:32:43

So is that something you learned from this, or have you always kind of had that openness, that vulnerability in front of people? For me, it took me a while to get there, but once I embraced it, I'm never going back.

Where did you find your comfort level with vulnerability and letting people in to see the mistakes?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:33:02

This podcast, quite frankly, because prior to it, I was always behind the camera. I was always the director of photography or taking pictures or anything that did not require me to be in front of the camera.

That was my comfort zone.

Being in front of the camera was very, very, very, very challenging because you have to accept yourself for who you are, what you look like, what you sound like, and the fact that you're going to make mistakes. Yeah, no, it was this podcast, man. It's definitely helped me grow as a man, as a human being.

Matt Stagliano: 00:33:30

What are the things that you saw that made that feeling in you? Like, this is uncomfortable.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:33:35

Oh, okay. Let's see your voice, right? You start to listen to your voice, you're like, oh, my God, is that what I sound like?

Then you get acclimated, and you're like, okay. And people tell me, oh, I love your voice. I'm like, really? Like, you like this thing? All right? It's like, I can listen to you all the time.

Like, no, it's funny. I told my. My son, like, hey, you want to listen to my podcast? And they're like, no, I listen to you all damn day.

I don't want to listen to you some more. So the. My voice was number one. Seeing my face since I was more overweight back then, it's like, oh, God, I'm. I look fat.

And this and that and these kind of have to stop and just accept for who you are at that time. And if you want to improve, improve. If you don't, you don't. It's fine.

You start to be a little bit more humble with yourself and be okay in your own skin. And, yeah, that's. That's. That's for me, man. That's what I did it. And it gives you confidence too in yourself.

Matt Stagliano: 00:34:23

I appreciate you saying that and being open with that because as photographers, as videographers, having people in front of the lens, right? As the majority of our work, having that level of empathy to understand just how uncomfortable it.

You might see everybody as beautiful, no matter who they are, how they represent themselves. I'm a big believer in rawness and authenticity and no makeup and just kind of regular ratty clothes. Like I'm a big fan of that.

I don't know if I would have that same connection to my clients or anybody that I talk to if I didn't experience it myself first. That doesn't mean that I'm a thousand percent accepting of who I am in the way that I am. Right. I always going to be the.

The young kid that sees something that can be better. I don't want to be wearing husky jeans anymore. I want to be in regular sized jeans. Right.

So there's all of these things that we beat ourselves up about. But from those learnings we can help other people discover the same level of self love, self care. So I appreciate you sharing that.

I really, really do. I don't think enough guys talk about the discomfort that they feel when they see themselves or they're dissatisfied with a part of themselves.

And I'm a big advocate for bringing that out. So I just want to tell you I appreciate that. Thank you for sharing that.

As you've gone from peculiar to imaging and then shutterfest, you're hitting all these conferences. Has there been one thing that you've noticed from a conference standpoint, people are open and willing, that they're a little bit more shut down?

Do you find that your network expands? Do you find yourself talking to the same people that you would have talked to anyway? Every conference for me is different.

I'm curious as to your experiences. I have not been to Peculiar. I missed it this year and I have never gone to Imaging because I was always going to Portrait Masters or wppi.

I'd love to hear as you're getting more comfortable with the conferences, what are you seeing as your experience and then the attendees experiences as well? What ways would you improve things, not change things? Give me your views on conferences in general, where they're going these days.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:36:32

I'll start with the last part of the question. I feel that conferences. I've only gone, I guess for the last three years. It's been my. My tenure within the. The conference space world.

I guess post Covid is a good way of putting it.

Matt Stagliano: 00:36:44

Yeah.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:36:45

I feel like they're gravitating away from just like a lecture. They're trying to not lecture people anymore.

And they're trying to create an experience, which I think is the right thing to do because there's a lot of great education out there, whether it's through YouTube, whether it's through online courses and whatnot. And a lot of the people that go to these conferences keep repeating the same thing. They go for the people.

They go for the people that I've met, either as friends or it's just their time of the year or twice a year to go and hang out. And it's more so like a collective unit of friends and they spend time there.

So I think that if they keep focusing on that aspect of the experience of having all these artists in one collective area, letting them either create art or just be themselves. Yeah, there's going to be vendors there. There, yes. There's going to be. Classes are going to be all this other stuff.

But I think if they gravitate towards the experience that when you go here, whether it's imaging, wppi, Shutterfest, whatever, there's so many out there, the Bokeh Summit, whatever.

Matt Stagliano: 00:37:41

Right.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:37:41

If the experience is memorable and you just remember you're going to take the. The memories with you, the camera eventually is going to die, the stuff you buy is going to go away.

It's just those memories that people have that is going to stay with them and it's going to make them want to come back and maybe even elevate them to try something new because such and such does this kind of work. And now they're being motivated to try that or step out of their comfort zone.

So I think that's what's going on in terms of the trade shows and the conference, at least from my perspective, the attendees are interesting. Imaging is interesting because there's like a. There's two parts to it. There's the.

What I consider to be more so like the season PPA member who's been there for a while there in a completely different type of mindset of where they want to be with their art, that's perfectly fine. You know, art is subjective, man. What's art to someone? It's different to somebody else. And then there's like the new generation.

And I think, for example, PPA right now is going through that interesting balance of how do you balance both. How can you keep your members that have been there forever with the new ones and keep it interesting on both levels?

And I think they're Starting to get the balance. They're starting to get the balance. For me, I see a lot of that. I see a lot of that with the attendees.

Some people don't care so much about the equipment, but they're there for the classes or they care about the equipment, or they're there for the celebrity photographers. You want to label them that way and try to learn from them. The other thing that I see, regardless of every conference, is it's the clicks, man.

I'm a social experiment kind of guy. I love sociology. I like human interactions. That's why I do podcasting. I like talking to people.

The first thing I notice in every single conference that I go to is it's like high school all over again. And there's different clicks and there's nothing wrong with it. People hang out with the people that they're going to be hanging out with.

Being sort of able to kind of go between the different groups. There's always going to be misconceptions, like, oh, they think that this group is this way or this group is that way.

Everybody experiences life differently and they have different priorities, they have different things, different likes, dislikes.

And being part of these different groups and being exposed to all the different types of groups that are within these conferences has opened my eyes to understand people a little bit better. It's reminiscent again of high school because I used to do.

I was the TV producer, TV production guy, the producer guy in my high school, and it was the same thing. You know, the sports guys this and that. And I find it fascinating.

For me, it's fascinating because I can talk to them and they're willing to talk to me. As long as you treat anybody as a human being would respect, there they are willing to talk to you.

If you make your preconceived notion that you think that this person's an asshole or this person is a pretentious individual, and you greet them and you talk to them with that approach, they're just going to be like, oh, okay, so you think I'm such and such or you think I'm this way or because you read this on social media, you automatically make conclusions about me. Let me make something really clear. I got the best ex.

I like being surprised at imaging I interviewed someone that I may not necessarily agree with how they communicate on social media outside of it. Wonderful freaking human being. Wonderful freaking human being. And in my head I'm like, see, this is what I'm talking about.

It's like sometimes social media and the Internet bring out the worst of people. I was pleasantly surprised. I'm like, thank you, God, man.

I like being surprised that you are actually a great human being outside of the post that are on social media. But that's something that I've come to learn about conferences.

Every conference I go different clicks, different likes, different people have expectations of what they want. I go with no expectations. I go with the expectation that I'm going to meet people, see some old friends, and just wing it.

If you set the expectation low, you're less likely to be disappointed.

Matt Stagliano: 00:41:16

Amen, brother. Going in with no expectations or being Gumby like and just adaptable to anything is where I found the best experiences.

Being open to serendipity and allowing things to just happen. Hey, you bump into someone, hey, we're going to this party. You want to come with us? Sure, why not? Like, just go.

Forget about the plans that you had before. Like, don't screw your friends over.

But, like, if you have the opportunity to hang out with people you wouldn't hang out with, here's your chance to figure out, are these folks that I want to talk to again or not? The tribalism, the cliquishness. Yeah, I think you're always going to have that, right.

You get the old schoolers versus the people that are there for the first time.

You've got the PPA folks with all their flair, and then you've got the newbies that are just kind of like, I would never wear a metal with all the pieces of flair. Like, that's just not my thing. You're right.

In terms of every conference having a different feel, the crowd itself, the attendees become this amorphous mass and you just get a vibe from how they're all feeling. And I'm always curious as to how other people interpret that and how they experience it. I'm like you. I love to observe.

I love to weave in and out of groups. I try not to be too much of an asshole. But, you know, people have their opinions. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong.

But I love to explore as much as I can when I'm there. I made the mistake for a couple of years of just staying with the same people, and you just.

You've got your conference buddy and you miss out on a lot by not allowing yourself to open up. It's kind of like being in high school when you can play Switzerland. Maybe this is a trauma response. I have no idea.

But if it's between the jocks and the nerds and the drama geeks and the lunch lady Right. If you can float between all these groups, it's just sharpening the skills for you to be able to relate to anybody and have better conversations.

When you are rigid in one way and one set belief and try to force that on someone else without having that open mindedness, I think you're just setting yourself up for trouble.

It's one of the things that I've learned from podcasting, and it sounds like you have too, that by having these conversations you really do get a much better sense of everything that's going on. And it's not the same as just networking with people and hearing rumors and he said, she said and so. And so is doing this.

It's really understanding the fabric of what this community is like. That's been a huge benefit for me. I think what you're saying is spot on.

I would love to see conferences create more of an experience without it feeling like they're trying to sell you an experience. I really dislike being sold to. I don't like when someone's hand is always in my pocket of this is going to be the most amazing thing.

It's just another $49. This is going to be amazing. This is just another $199. It just feels like I'm walking through a car dealership. Right.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:44:25

Very slimy. Very slimy.

Matt Stagliano: 00:44:26

Yeah. It just feels good. Like, is this why we're here now? There's nothing wrong with capitalism. Staunch capitalist.

But I'd love to see more experiential learning rather than just trade show and lectures. Right. Regardless of what the conference is. So I'm hoping that it continues along that trend, that it becomes a bit more experiential.

So I'm glad you're seeing that. I haven't been to a conference since last year's wppi, so I'm a little bit out of the loop.

What do you see in the gaps in conversations in our business? What are people not talking about that you'd love to hear more about? Are people dissatisfied with conferences?

Are they dissatisfied with a certain brand? Are they looking at trends in how content's being produced?

What are you seeing as some of the conversations that are happening over and over and over?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:45:14

I would say that one of the reoccurring ones is all around AI. Right?

Matt Stagliano: 00:45:19

Oh, okay.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:45:20

AI terrifies people and excites some people too. Right. People make businesses out of what you can do out of AI.

And I feel that the best way you can encapsulate that entire conversation is that AI is not going to take your job Is someone using AI that's going to take your job. That's probably the best way I can put it.

Matt Stagliano: 00:45:37

I like.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:45:37

And, you know, it really is. I'm able to do a lot of the things that I do as a single content creator because of being resourceful.

There's that corporate side trying to figure out what is the best tool I can use to do what I do. Yep. You can either embrace it or be left behind. It sucks. It really is.

It sucks that so many businesses are going to be impacted by this, but it's just the way that things are moving and it's not slowing down. So there is the conversation about, you know, am I going to be able to still make a living off of this?

I think at that point, it just depends on the individual. Right. If. If you're going to be someone who is able to pivot.

If you're able to pivot, if anybody learned anything from COVID if you don't know how to pivot, then you're not going to be able to survive this. So a lot of people are worried about AI outside of that, from the business. A lot of my conversations haven't gotten deep into that too much.

So with the exception of, of AI, Yeah, I think that's the only one man that I can probably speak to.

Matt Stagliano: 00:46:30

How are you embracing AI?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:46:31

I'll start for editing. Well, before I just had to hire people to edit, man, I have a backlog of like 15 episodes. I can't. I can't. I don't have time.

But prior to that, I would have this plugin on, on Premiere that would actually do all my cuts for me. And it'll do it. Unless it'll do it in like 30 seconds.

I'm like, oh, my God, this thing is doing all the cuts and they can actually do multi camera just like that. Perfect. That saves me time utilizing things like Opus Clip to be able to, like, get shorts and whatnot. Great.

There's a tool out there that allows me to create a blog from my YouTube video and it pumps it out right into my website systematically. Like, I don't have to do anything. I don't have to type anything. I don't like typing. So there's that chat GPT. I mean, come on.

Matt Stagliano: 00:47:10

Sure.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:47:10

You literally can do market research on any industry and say, hey, tell me everything. I did it today. Tell me about Matt. Can you tell me anything about him? Both as a photographer, as a podcaster in life.

And he gave me a breakdown and whatnot. I know, gave me all the records all the spicy stuff, Matt. No, but I swear to God, like, it's incredible what you can do.

Or even if you're trying to bounce an idea, right? Like, hey, I'm thinking about doing something like this. Can you give me an image that kind of resembles xyz, Right? It truly is.

If you're willing to put the ego down. That's the key right there. You have to be able to let go of the ego. Like me with editing. I had to find someone to edit for me.

And letting go of the control of how my episode's gonna be, that's been a new one for me. This is literally the last two weeks, Matt. Two weeks.

Matt Stagliano: 00:47:55

That's hard.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:47:56

Find someone, and they edit better than I do. I'm, like, freaking A. This is great. So now I have a better editor.

And it just proved that because I allowed myself to not be in control for that, it created a new opportunity.

So if you let go of the ego and you start to embrace the different facets of AI out there, whether it's for client communication, whether it's for calendars, whatever, it might be marketing, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised of what you can actually achieve if you allow yourself to just utilize it.

Matt Stagliano: 00:48:26

The tools that you mentioned, the adaptability, embracing, you know, what is the future? It's not like it's going away anytime soon. So the more that you can embrace and work into your own workflow, right? Make it fit, right?

Not everybody wears the same brand of jeans or the same T shirt. You got to find that one where the fabric feels right, right? Or makes your butt look good or whatever it is. Like, there's.

There's an AI tool out there for you that helps the view of AI is you got chatgpt, Claude, Perplexity, right? What a Gemini. All the tools out there, that is the chat bot, the large language model AI that most folks assume is all we're talking about.

I started to get into a little bit more automation, figure out, all right, how can I make transcription easier? How do I make YouTube title creation easier? Because, you know, I have, like, four brain cells, and they're in a cage match most days.

I haven't perfected it. I don't love some of the content that it creates, but it gives me a vision of where this is going in the future for me.

I find it difficult when people are using AI as a crutch and are not thinking about enhancing their voice, enhancing their presence, their brand, their product. With AI, too many folks, I feel, are looking at it like the panacea, the thing that is going to solve all their problems. That's not really it.

It's just meant to make life easier. So I'm very curious where this is going beyond just image generation, how this industry will embrace it. Not.

And by industry, I mean the creative space. Not just photography, not just podcasting.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:50:10

So I would agree.

Matt Stagliano: 00:50:11

When you're giving up editing, tell me what. Tell me what that's like. Tell me what it's like to give up control, because I can't. I don't know how to do it.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:50:18

This is the first time I know that's. I scratched that. I once let, many, many moons ago, someone edit a short film for me. And that was. Oh, my God, man, that was.

I feel bad for that editor because I was hovering in the background like a little fly, and I'm doing little fly motions if people are listening to this. And so I had to get some editors to do this. Human. Human editors, not necessarily AI. And what's interesting is that they have a vision, right?

They're like, okay, we can make it look great and whatnot. And I'm like, okay, this is phenomenal. You've leveled up my episode. Then came the whole thing about thumbnails, right? They.

They created thumbnails for me that are like the standard Gary Vee. And I'm like, it's not really me. It's not my brand. I'm not trying to go for shock value, which is like, I get.

You're trying to get me to be better with the algorithm or whatever it might be. But this is where, by letting go of the editing, I have to also communicate that I have a brand that I'm pushing forth. It's a very.

And we can talk about brand after this if you want, but for me, my brain has to be me. If it feels like it's everybody else, then what's special about it, right? Like, why are people listening to me?

And I've been able to communicate that and tell them, look, best thing we can do is keep what I have, I'll give you the templates and whatnot. At least I still have some control until they give me a better idea.

I told them, if you come up with something better, send it to me, and if I like it, we'll go your way.

So I'm still giving them the creative freedom, but at the same time is, I don't want to be cookie cutter, because there's a lot of cookie cutter content creators out there. And letting go of the editing is one of the Many steps of making sure that I hire people and I'm paying for them. Nobody's monetizing nothing.

So it's coming out of my own pocket so I can create more, bring more value to people. Yeah.

It's the first step of many to be able to just be okay with letting go, which is hard for someone who's really in control of practically every aspect of my life.

Matt Stagliano: 00:52:13

There's a conflict, I think, in a lot of people with the control thing. I know, speaking from my experience, it's hard for me to give up control because of serious trust issues. That what I want to come across. My level of.

Now, people will probably laugh at this, but my level of professionalism or what I strive for is at a. At a certain. I want to see certain quality standards. Whether it's the verbiage that's used, whether it's correct punctuation.

And these are carryovers from the corporate days. There's that certain level. If you can create that trust in me, I will give you as much as you can handle.

If there's the inkling that it's not going to, like you said, it's not going to be me or it's going to be a carbon copy of someone else that is trendy or successful, that ain't it. Work with me. Understand my brand. I do that with my clients. I want you to do that with me.

If anybody out there is hearing this, I would love to get like a graphic designer, starving artist, content creator that wants to help out, because that's a burgeoning industry as well, right. People that know the algorithms, know SEO, and can apply some of the contemporary learnings to that.

For old guys like me that just don't have the time to research how to place text on a thumbnail to get the most traction with the right words and the. You know what I mean? There's just a lot that goes into it.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:53:44

This algorithm thing, by the way, Matt, it's. This is where I had the challenge, right? Because these guys know what they're doing. They have results.

And they're like, oh, if you want to get these number of views or subscribers, your thumbnail needs to look like this. And I'm like, I don't want it to look like that. It's like, I get it. Like, I totally.

It's like you're self impeding yourself from growing because you're trying to be so honorary to your brand. But then it's like, you have to be, otherwise you become like everybody else.

And you know what's interesting man is the fact that this, this podcast, this podcast is also tapped into this interesting side of me. I'm always a perfectionist.

Matt Stagliano: 00:54:15

Yeah.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:54:16

You know, you, you might relate to it. And we like things to be exactly how we want them.

Allowing myself, like, I, I used to start my podcast saying, oh, you know, welcome to such and such. I'm John Carlo, the outspoken artist, blah, blah. I'm here with such and such these last few episodes that are going to be pumped out for imaging.

Literally, my inner, my intros are like, well, you know, I'm kind of done doing intros, so let's just go ahead and start.

It creates this very, like, normal conversation, kind of like what you have here and has now allowed me to be a little bit more, I guess, chill, more calm with my interactions. Perhaps that's why it's less stressful.

Because before when I was trying to get it just perfect, I'm like, I can't be worrying about the damn podcast being perfect. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And it's working for me, but it may not work for others. It's just, I don't care.

Matt Stagliano: 00:55:04

You've got just such an easy going way about you. There's a confidence, but it's an easy confidence. And whether or not that's, that's all an act, I don't know. I'll get into your head later.

But the, the fact that you're able to.

As we started talking, leaving me Instagram voice messages, you can tell that you've got that thing where people are going to feel comfortable and a lot of times in this type of situation, they're looking to the host to supply them with that little bit of confidence, that safety that it's okay to talk here and that I'm going to guide you through it. I don't want it to sound too polished.

I don't want this to sound manufactured by some network that has all the stingers and all the right titles and all the right sound. I don't want it to sound like that. I want people to be eavesdropping on the conversation that I have in my backyard. That's the whole point of this.

At some point, hopefully they'll learn something or get insight to the guest. I want to get back to the brand stuff.

When you started moving into podcasting or even with your business, it really doesn't matter on the creative side, what attention did you give to how you wanted to present the brand outside of I need to be me, what Details did you pay attention to or what did you think was important that you found was not important? Talk to me a little bit how you developed the look, feel, style, voice of what you're doing.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:56:29

I would say that when, before podcasting for me, I was big into marketing, right? The graphics had to be perfect, the image needed to be crisp and whatnot, Instagram, et cetera, website.

But there is one element that, in retrospect, was missing, which is the artist, right? Who's come, who's coming, who's going to be photographing me, or who's. Who am I interacting with?

And there was just this very muted, silent, distant type of energy. If you went to my Instagram or my website, the work was great, everything's great, but it's just like, okay, that's it.

The reason why I feel now brand awareness is so important is because I'm a big advocate of the individual taking control of their brand. You are your brand. And if you don't tell the world what your brand is, who your brand is made up of, the industry is going to tell the world.

Do you want them to tell the world who they think about you, or do you want to be the one in control of that narrative? And ever since I took control of the narrative, things have changed drastically in multiple aspects of my photography, my podcasting, etc.

Because now I have. There's this expectation. People look people up like, who is this person? And then they see.

They see exactly who you're going to be interacting with, and they'll know right away if they're going to want to work with you or not. And if they don't want to work with you. Okay, cool. You know that's part of an onboarding process, right? It's probably not going to work.

Better that you figure it out early than you figure it out later on. So I am a big advocate of making sure that whatever your brand is, you have to start to figure that out and see what works and what doesn't.

You mentioned the voice notes, right? Yeah. I saw a video from Pat Flynn. He has this book called Super Fans. Love that book.

And he says one of the things that he does when he walks his dog, he'll grab his phone and he'll literally look at everybody on Instagram or whoever else and start leaving little voice notes. I'm like, that sounds pretty cool. Maybe I should try to do that.

And then I started doing that, and it built this interesting dynamic where now people that would either be followers of the show or friends or people that I met at different conferences. I'm leaving everybody.

Like, I can honestly say a lot of people will vouch for this, saying that I bombard people with little notes saying hi, because first of all, it's so much easier. I don't want to type. It's just the stupid keyboard always gets it wrong. And some people, look, I'm never saying.

Matt Stagliano: 00:58:50

Ducking, look, I'm never, look at this ducking.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 00:58:53

I have an Android and an iPhone, so I joke around. I'm like, oh, this is my drug dealing phone. One keyboard is different than the other one. And I'm like, screw it, man, I can't do this.

I don't have time. So people get to hear me. They get to hear the person that they met and. Or if they follow me, they get to hear me sending them a direct message.

And it's authentic. I'm not BSing it. I'm just literally sending a message, thank you, or this and that. I hope you're doing great.

And it has connected so well with people that I just keep doing it now. And if somebody's birthday is coming up, I'll either call them or I'll leave them a voice note saying, hey, I hope you have a wonderful birthday.

Because I feel that them hearing that versus a little comment on their little feed just holds so much more value. So that's my brand. That's what I, that's what I'm bringing to the table. I'm telling people like, this is who I am.

More than likely people are going to say, yeah, this guy is leaving me voice notes or doing this or doing that because that's kind of what I want people to see me because that's who I am. That's what I do.

Matt Stagliano: 00:59:51

You inspired me to start doing that more.

I'm a big voice to text guy, but rarely do I send audio notes to people or audio messages because inevitably I'll say something like, hey, how are you? Period? Right?

Because I'm trying to do the voice to text thing and I'm still doing voice to text and they're hearing it and then I sound like an idiot and that's a normal course of events. No, you definitely inspired me to start doing this more. And you're right, it is way easier. And now you're having a conversation, right?

There was an app that I used with a friend of mine named Marco Polo. Have you ever tried Marco Polo?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:00:28

I heard of Marco Polo. I think you mentioned it to me.

Matt Stagliano: 01:00:30

Same kind of concept, but it's video chats. I love the fact that it's just asynchronous.

I can sit here and just sit on my back porch, record a polo, and, you know, just talk to you about whatever and then send it off to you, and then you respond whenever, and it feels like we're actually having that conversation. Much more so than text. Yes. You have influenced me already with your brand by incorporating it into my own.

Time will tell to see if people, like, stop fucking sending me audio messages, dude. But just stop it. I don't want to hear you anymore.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:01:03

Get it? Just text me.

Matt Stagliano: 01:01:05

Yeah, seriously, don't even do that. Is it okay if I block you for a while? Thinking about everything that we've talked about? Like, you've got this wonderful humility about you that you.

Like, you're just getting started, but obviously you've taken off quite quickly, and you're appearing at all of these conferences, and you're already doing stuff in booths. I love watching this growth for you. I'm a huge supporter of anybody that can get into this and treat it like the craft that it's supposed to be.

Where do you see this going as you grow, as you hand things off, as you give up a little bit of control? Where do you see it going for you, or where would you like to see it go? What are your goals?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:01:47

Goals right now are two. I think I've got a good system now, so at least that one's been checked off.

I'll improve as I go along, so at least I don't have to worry about that behemoth. I am tapping into different markets that one could consider art. I like the race car environment because I think F1. Yeah, like F1. Or the.

Like the Michelin endurance racing and things like that. My. My best friend does racing, so that's kind of where that influence comes from.

And I find it fascinating from a data perspective, but also from what the team effort that it takes for someone to be able to do what they do. There's like, a level of art to it and start to tap into these interesting, different little sections of what is art.

Because, yeah, I do photography, but there's art everywhere. Like my mom making, restoring dolls. That, to me, is art. Somebody who makes knives out of nothing, that's art.

So my goal is once I have a good cadence of where I can actually pump out episodes and whatnot, I just want to branch out a little bit and see what other markets are out there and have conversations, human conversations with people. I think it's worth giving people the opportunity to talk to them and Showcase them.

Because the interesting thing about what we do with podcasting and putting ourselves on video, Matt, is that we're technically leaving behind a legacy. We are. At some point, we're all going to die. Ideally, YouTube servers will still be on, but whatever videos we make, they're going to be there.

At some point.

I'm going to be old, and I may not do this anymore, but my kids or my grandkids or whatnot, or my family members, friends, and et cetera, will have these things to kind of go back to or even myself of saying, this is what I did during this time period in my life. I'm only able to do that because I got uncomfortable for a bit being in front of the camera.

And now I was just trying to figure out, okay, so how many more people can I meet? How many more people I can impact? How many more first interviews can I do for people?

Because in doing that with so many different people, some of them have started their own podcast. Some of them have been more likely to be in other podcasts just because somebody told them, hey, you're worth talking to.

Everybody's worth talking to. But just giving them the permission to say that, hey, you. You should talk to people. You should tell people your story. It's enough to motivate them.

And everybody wants to make an impact on the world. To me, the world is the people that are around you. If you can impact just one person in one way, you've changed the world. That's just my perspective.

Matt Stagliano: 01:04:07

I love that. And I can see that you embody all of that. I love hearing the passion in your voice for what you do. It's inevitable.

It's just a matter of course that this will be incredibly successful for you. Who are you listening to these days?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:04:21

Who am I listening to? I've been listening to your. To your stuff. How about that? Sorry. So much cursing. I'm just kidding. I was actually listening to that.

The Johnny Edwards WPPI recap from last year. Freaking was loving that thing.

Matt Stagliano: 01:04:35

Got me into trouble. That one.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:04:36

I heard. I heard. I talked to Johnny about it, too. So that was. That was an interesting. The power of podcasting. It comes with. With his wrist, and it's not.

It's not for the faint of heart, but if you stay authentic, then it comes with it, right? You're gonna. Some people are gonna like what you do, and some people are not gonna like what you do.

Matt Stagliano: 01:04:52

So it's 100% it. But it reaffirmed within me that the only way I can do this is my way and that I'm not here to please anyone and I'm beholden to no one.

And that independence allows me to have the conversations and say the things that I want to say. Again, for good or bad, I don't play the game. So if you want me to just know what you're getting, a little bit of controversy.

Not for controversy's sake, but for stimulation of conversation can only benefit all of us. I'm wrong all the time.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:05:25

You asked me something, right? You asked me about my plan, and you just reminded me something. I am also trying to tap into to the creed that I gave myself.

My show is called the Outspoken Artist. I need to be more outspoken. And it's finding that nice balance of how can I be outspoken without burning too many bridges?

So it's like this interesting balance of I want to make sure, like, for example, I'll give you the best example of Alex. He's never been interviewed. I think that's bullshit. He should have been interviewed. Why hasn't be interviewed?

Everybody else has been, but it's all these different people that impact everybody that should be. I have no problem saying that. And if that means that somebody dropped the ball by not talking to somebody before me, that's on them.

But I need to be more outspoken. That's one of my goals for the next year and a half or so.

Matt Stagliano: 01:06:14

The art of conversation oftentimes is missing.

People have just forgotten how to talk and be respectful with opinion differences and being able to say the things that you believe or that you think you believe.

But you have an open mind enough and you respect the person in front of you enough to know that there's going to be nothing but respect on the table and that we can part as friends. We can have disagreements, but we can part as friends, or we can agree. And it doesn't mean we're going to be best friends.

But I love the fact that we can have open, honest dialogue. Whatever comes of it, comes of it.

But I've never had an honest conversation where I walked away and said, well, that was worthless, because I always learn something and there's always something to find out, whether it's experience, whether or not, like, Matt's an asshole. One of those things always comes to mind as the output. I don't think enough of us are having the open conversation.

I'm not saying that everything should be aired. Not all the dirty laundry, Lord knows. But I think we should be honest with ourselves and our craft and where things are going.

And there are far too many artists out there that are not getting the recognition of the quote, unquote, celebrity photographers that are the same influencers for every brand. There's a lot of people out there that are creating incredible art that are never going to get those opportunities, even if they want them.

My hope is that through what we do, we can give light to a lot of these other artists that wouldn't have a platform otherwise. I applaud you loudly for everything that you're bringing to the community and the reasons why you're doing it, because they're noble.

And I really appreciate the fact that you're being honest and letting people have that platform. So good for you, man. I really. I really enjoy what you're doing.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:08:13

Thank you, man. Thank you. I appreciate that.

I think that if people approach conversations or interactions with people with an open mind, like you said, and not judge somebody by the COVID of the book. Right. Or what they say on social media or whatnot, just give people the benefit of the doubt. Two things are going to happen.

One, they're going to prove exactly what you think they are.

Matt Stagliano: 01:08:33

Yeah.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:08:33

Or they will surprise you. And you come to realize that sometimes it's just a Persona. It could be who they have to be to make money.

And then when you peel the layers, that's when you see the real person that it's in there. And sometimes it's fascinating.

Matt Stagliano: 01:08:49

Where can people find everything that you're doing?

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:08:52

Easiest place would be outspoken artist dot com. That'll be your central hub. I like posting on YouTube, Spotify and that trickles everywhere else. You know, Apple music and whatnot and etc.

And as I start to put out more content with some help, then it'll be Instagram, TikTok. You'll see more of that in there. But yeah, if you interact with me, you'll probably get voice notes. So there's also that tune.

Matt Stagliano: 01:09:15

Do you want to hear these dulcet tones day in and day out? Just send them a message. Just maybe there's. There's your monetization.

So just having a pay subscription for you to leave audio notes for, for people every morning. Motivational audio notes. You're beautiful.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:09:30

Asmr. Asmr. Spoken artists. If I had my drink, I would have done like a little ice thing, but it's all gone.

Matt Stagliano: 01:09:36

Clink, clink, clink, clink, clink. Thank you for being here, man. I really. I could talk to you all day long. Obviously, I want to have you back at some point.

I want to revisit this after Shudderfest. I want to see what you learned. I want to hear more about it. I just can't wait to watch the meteoric rise of you and the outspoken artist.

So thanks again for being here. Hang on for a second while things finish uploading, but I will talk to you again soon, my friend. Hopefully, if not here, then on Instagram.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:10:02

Same here, man.

Matt Stagliano: 01:10:03

I'll talk to you later.

Jean Carlo Penaloza: 01:10:04

Take care, Matt.