Ep. 061 - Ben Marcum: Don't Make an Avocado Green Fridge
What color was your childhood fridge? For photographer Ben Marcum, it was that unforgettable avocado green—and that odd little memory sets the tone for an honest, funny, and insightful hour about life, art, and connection.
Ben, based in Louisville, Kentucky, has built a thriving portrait and boudoir studio rooted in authenticity. We talk about how his years in theater shaped his ability to read people, how video became his strongest storytelling tool, and how he keeps things light, human, and deeply real—both online and in-studio.
He opens up about burnout, fitness, therapy, and the never-ending tug-of-war between creativity and comparison. It’s a candid look at what it takes to build a creative business without losing your sanity or sense of humor.
Podcast Title: Generator
Episode Title: Ben Marcum: Don't Make An Avocado Green Fridge
Episode Number: 61
Publish Date: 6 Oct 2025
Episode Overview
• How short-form video can strengthen client relationships and attract real fans
• Why authentic storytelling beats social-media trends every time
• Ben’s pre-session rituals and grounding practices for emotional shoots
• The difference between directing and collaborating with clients
• How to handle self-criticism, mental health, and burnout as a creative
• Why timeless portraits outlast the algorithm
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📍 Connect with Ben Marcum:
Website: https://www.benmarcum.com or https://boudoirbybenmarcum
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benmarcumphoto
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Website: https://stonetreecreative.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stonetreecreative
Podcast: https://generatorpodcast.com
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Transcript
Hey, I've got a quick question for you.
Speaker A:What color was the refrigerator in your kitchen growing up back in the 70s?
Speaker A:Mine was this disgusting avocado green.
Speaker A:And in the course of this conversation with Ben Markham, he mentions said green fridge.
Speaker A:But I won't give away why.
Speaker A:You're going to have to listen for yourself.
Speaker A:Ben is this incredible photographer.
Speaker A:He's based down in Bourbon country in Louisville, Kentucky, and he's known for his incredible true to life headshots as well as his fine art intimate portraits, his boudoir works.
Speaker A:He's mastered both styles.
Speaker A:But in addition to his photography, Ben's gained a ton of popularity over the past few years for his social media videos, specifically the ones that he has on TikTok and Instagram.
Speaker A:You see, Ben uses video as a tool to educate, to entertain, and more importantly, connect with his clients.
Speaker A:We talk all about how he does that.
Speaker A:We talk about his time as a sound design and sound engineer in the theater world.
Speaker A:We get into his inspirations, the fact that a makeup team is the unsung hero of a session.
Speaker A:We talk about his pre session rituals, how he focuses on his own mental health, and his own favorite small label, bourbon.
Speaker A:Ben is one of those guys that I watch online and go, you know what?
Speaker A:He's doing it right.
Speaker A:And I often find that he inspires me to do more for my clients as well.
Speaker A:He's as real as they come, with this easy confidence that can only be earned by years of hard work.
Speaker A:It was a ton of fun to talk to him, and I can't believe it took us this long to get together.
Speaker A:If you can look past some of my own occasional ramblings, I think you'll find that Ben's insights prove why his clients rave about him time and time again.
Speaker A:So I think I'll call this episode don't make an Avocado Green Fridge.
Speaker A:And, well, regardless of the title, you're going to enjoy the next hour with my guest, Ben Markham.
Speaker A:So sit back, relax, and let's start the show.
Speaker A:As I watch your career and what you're doing online, I see so many parallels.
Speaker A:And you've actually just got the balls to put things on camera that I haven't done in the past.
Speaker A:So I really want to dig into how you're doing all of that, but first and foremost, thank you for even agreeing to do this.
Speaker A:I've been wanting to have you on for a long time, so I'm glad you're here.
Speaker B:Well, and, and thank you for having me.
Speaker B:And now that I know that people are actually watching my shit.
Speaker B:There's pressure, so.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Damn it.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:No, I. I sit there and I take notes every morning and I go, what did Ben do today?
Speaker A:Let me see what he did.
Speaker A:It's been, I'd say, the past year or so, maybe year and a half that you've been really leaning heavy into, into TikTok and social stuff.
Speaker A:And you've done really well with it.
Speaker A:You're unbelievably consistent.
Speaker A:Do you have a strategy?
Speaker B:I wish I did.
Speaker B:When I was first getting going with it, you know, it was the, okay, you know, I've got to do the three to five times a day, and, you know, what am I gonna.
Speaker B:And so I get that point.
Speaker B:I had a strategy.
Speaker B:I've been doing it long enough now and given myself enough time to get burned out and too much in my own head about it that now I'm just like, oh, what works?
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:Now the strategy is refind my voice and get out of my own way and just make the content.
Speaker B:So yes, no is going to be the easiest answer to that because it's tough.
Speaker B:Coming up with ideas can be screamingly tough.
Speaker B:But then all of us, I think, as creatives will get in our way, because no matter how much we all preach, don't let vanity metrics get in your head.
Speaker B:Vanity metrics are gonna get into your head.
Speaker B:It's just inevitable, part of the process.
Speaker B:So, you know, when I go, oh, that video only got 300 views, or that one only got 500, my ego gets bruised not thinking about going, if there were 500 people standing in this room right now, I would lose my ever loving mind, you know, so it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the strategy right now is just refine, refining my voice, you know, coming back at it and going.
Speaker A:Which is really strange to hear from you just because you.
Speaker B:You seem.
Speaker A:And again, right.
Speaker A:I see things from the outside.
Speaker A:I don't sit at home with all the neuroses and the head games that you play with yourself, but from the outside, it seems like you know that voice.
Speaker A:And maybe it is because you've been working at defining it for years now, but, you know, the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The clear separation between, let's say, headshot work and boudoir work.
Speaker A:Like you're always taking off one hat and putting on another.
Speaker A:Does that affect the voice?
Speaker A:Or are you trying to just keep the same voice but target a different product, a different audience?
Speaker B:So it's always the same voice.
Speaker B:Like, it's the.
Speaker B:The me you see on Camera, you know, the.
Speaker B:The short form video.
Speaker B:Me.
Speaker B:That's me.
Speaker B:Like, so if.
Speaker B:If we were to run into each other at a convention or something, somewhere.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Same guy.
Speaker B:When I.
Speaker B:When I say.
Speaker B:Trying to find voice, I'm going, what do I.
Speaker B:What do I say to people now?
Speaker B:What's going to bring value?
Speaker B:What's, you know, in a.
Speaker B:In a space where we're competing for eyeballs so much, and it's fast.
Speaker B:Is going, how.
Speaker B:How am I going to hook them?
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:How is this going to be of interest to them?
Speaker B:Because I just don't want to put drek into the world either.
Speaker B:There's enough static.
Speaker B:Um, so if I'm going to be putting things out, I want it to either bring value or entertain people.
Speaker B:You know, I was just saying to my makeup artist yesterday, it was like, I. I don't take myself seriously at all, but I take the work very seriously.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I think that comes through.
Speaker B:Well, I hope it comes through with the social media as well.
Speaker B:It's like, if I'm gonna share it with you, I want it to provide something.
Speaker A:I think it's one of the things that you do better than a lot of folks that I see.
Speaker A:Insofar as you walk directly to the camera, you talk directly to it.
Speaker A:You are, you.
Speaker A:You're using your hands, right?
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:It could be talking about, you know, how hard it is to get in front of the camera.
Speaker A:It could be something you screwed up.
Speaker A:It could be, you know, your unwillingness to go to the gym.
Speaker A:Like, I love the fact that you are you.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And people get the consistency of seeing a common format, but they never really know what they're going to get in terms of topic.
Speaker A:And I love that because I'm like, I know this guy.
Speaker A:I want to hear what he has to say today.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And it's not, you know, you're not staring at your coffee mug with words over your head going, you know, 10 things a business owner should know.
Speaker A:And you just, you know, I love the fact that you dive right into it and you clearly make it feel like you're talking to one person, not to a broad audience.
Speaker A:And that is a huge part of connection.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And it's a. I never realized I talked with my hands as much as I did until I started editing my own videos.
Speaker B:I was like, how do you people put up with me?
Speaker B:That's crazy.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But no, I.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's what I've always wanted it to be is like, it's a conversation, you Know, it's.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker B:When Snapchat first came out and then Instagram stories, you know, came in after that, I went through a phase where everything was, you know, all right, guys, that was, you know, how I jumped into everything.
Speaker B:But it's like, no, I'm not talking to guys.
Speaker B:Like, I'm talking to you, and you're.
Speaker B:You're giving me your eyeballs.
Speaker B:I need to approach that from there.
Speaker B:So I just.
Speaker B:I really do want it to feel conversational, like we're just hanging out or I'm pontificating on something or whatever.
Speaker B:But it should feel one on one.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I think it's more interesting, human connection that way.
Speaker A:Yeah, I dare to guess, too.
Speaker A:If you look at your engagement, people are watching a lot longer than kind of the norm.
Speaker A:You know, I heard an interesting thing.
Speaker A:I don't know if it was Johnny Carson, maybe it was Ryan Seacrest.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It was one of the.
Speaker A:One of the guys that, you know, one of the legendary late night.
Speaker A:Like a Dick Clark.
Speaker A:Oh, it might have been Dick Clark, as a matter of fact.
Speaker A:That basically said, when you're getting on camera, don't say, hey, guys, or, hey, everyone.
Speaker A:Hello, everyone.
Speaker A:Talk to one person.
Speaker A:And if you talk to one person, not only will it feel more connected, but it also gives you an image in your mind of who you're talking to.
Speaker A:Rather than standing up in front of a crowd, you're talking to one person.
Speaker A:And it always seems to break down that wall for me when I can just talk to.
Speaker A:All right, just think about Ben on the other side.
Speaker A:Just talk directly to Ben.
Speaker A:It just seems to relieve a lot of the tension that I'm speaking to a wide audience, that I have to get it right and perfect every single time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I completely agree with it.
Speaker B:And it translates when you then actually start meeting, meeting people who follow you on social and watch your videos, and when they meet you in person, the conversation flows much more naturally.
Speaker B:And that's really the ideal goal, right?
Speaker B:Is like, we're going to get out of the little boxes and, you know, face to face.
Speaker B:So I've had it with clients who've come in who've been like, I feel like I already know you because I watch your stuff.
Speaker B:Or, my wife and I are suffering through learning how to golf, and I was at a driving range somewhere, and some guy came up, was like, aren't you like.
Speaker B:And then, you know, we just ended up having a great conversation because he already felt like he knew who I was.
Speaker B:And I think that Kind of should be.
Speaker B:Be the goal, at least for a lot.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not trying to make a money.
Speaker B:Make a money, not trying to make money by being a social media influencer or any of that.
Speaker B:I'm not a creator, I'm a photographer.
Speaker B:So it really is about connection that way.
Speaker B:So it makes it, I think it makes it more interesting too.
Speaker B:I'm too old to be bored doing it.
Speaker A:So I get to that point where I'm like, I only have so much time on this earth.
Speaker A:I want to make the few minutes that I'm putting them online worth it.
Speaker A:But suffering through learning golf, best phrase that I've heard as someone gets into the game, suffering through it as a golfer for a long time.
Speaker A:And suffering is absolutely the turn to use.
Speaker B:So I want to go back a.
Speaker A:Little bit to your theater days because before we started we pressed record on this, we were talking about your, you know, your sound design days, your sound engineering days.
Speaker A:And was that what you were doing in theater?
Speaker A:Were you acting, stagehand, sound design, lighting, all of it or none of it, or.
Speaker B:I was a sound designer, engineer.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:The first time I touched a soundboard was in my middle school days.
Speaker B:I was a library aide.
Speaker B:So aging myself a little bit.
Speaker B:I was a squeaky cart kid that would bring the VCR to your room and there was a, you know, got me out of class.
Speaker B:It was great.
Speaker B:There was a.
Speaker B:In the library was a little 12 channel self amplified Yamaha mixer that nobody knew how to use.
Speaker B:And I looked at it and went, well, this makes sense.
Speaker B:Sound starts here, it goes to here, and I got to get it to there.
Speaker B:And then I discovered that got me out of class.
Speaker B:So like anytime there was an assembly, a pep rally or whatever they call me, and I'd go deal with it.
Speaker B:So then through high school, I ended up getting hooked up with the theater kids and it just kind of spiraled.
Speaker B:So I started getting paid to design an engineer when I was 15 and you know, that, that carried through until I had my midlife crisis at 35.
Speaker A:So is that when you started to move out of theater and into photography?
Speaker A:It was right around that mid-30s age.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was working at Actors Theatre of Louisville, which was one of the biggest regional theaters in the country.
Speaker B:We were on the map for doing Humana Festival of the American Plays, which was the biggest new play festival in the country at that point.
Speaker B:And we were doing, depending on the year, between six and 10 fully produced pieces in six weeks.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's brutal.
Speaker B:And when you're in it like it's badges of honor for those of us who did it.
Speaker B:And then we also look back and go, what the hell was wrong with us?
Speaker B:That was brutal.
Speaker B:So I was there for like the last 10, 11 years of my career and it, by the end of it, the industry had changed pretty dramatically and I was unhappy.
Speaker B:A lot more politics.
Speaker B:You know, I'm from Louisville.
Speaker B:Working at a theater in my hometown is kind of unheard of.
Speaker B:It started to get to the point and they were bringing in enough people that, you know, if you had a 502 area code instead of a 917, you were less than, you know, fact is, I was at the time one of the best sound designers in the country.
Speaker B:But because politics and whatever.
Speaker B:So I was just getting unhappy.
Speaker B:And I actually, I met my wife at Actors as well and she was thinking about leaving at the same time.
Speaker B:And she saw how unhappy I was and was like, if you don't get out of there, you're going to have a heart attack in the middle of Pamela Brown, which is our big theater space.
Speaker B:And she was right.
Speaker B:So we did the sensible thing that any couple would do when we both quit our full time jobs at the same time to launch our own companies.
Speaker B:And when I was first leaving, I was doing, you know, website design.
Speaker B:And then that spiraled into me picking up a camera.
Speaker A:So I was going to say, was it, Was that the thing?
Speaker B:Did you.
Speaker A:Did you have a moment where you were like, yeah, photography, is it?
Speaker A:Or were you like, well, let me try photography and see if that's it.
Speaker A:That's how I wandered into it.
Speaker A:And I just didn't know if you started as a hobby and then became a thing that you could do or were you always driven to something visual, given the theater background?
Speaker B:So I took a photography class my senior year of high school.
Speaker B:We were shooting film at that point.
Speaker B:So it was really more of a class about how to use a dark room than it was to photograph especially people.
Speaker B:We never really photographed people while doing website stuff.
Speaker B:Somebody needed some shots for a website and I was like, oh, I'll just pick up a digital camera.
Speaker B:You know, it's packs right off, whatever.
Speaker B:And then that just spiraled into it.
Speaker B:And, you know, at first I was like, I'll shoot everything.
Speaker B:And you know, I. I won't bore you with all the details.
Speaker B:But eventually ended up on headshots and was like, here we go, this is the thing.
Speaker B:And at that point, nobody in Louisville was specializing in headshots.
Speaker B:And I went, well, because of My theater background, I clearly know them.
Speaker B:Come to find out, I didn't know them as well as I thought I did, but that's a whole other story.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:But I went gung ho on that.
Speaker B:Here we are.
Speaker A:You know, that was going to be a question of mine was, you know, I wanted to lead in from theater to photography because I was wondering if there was anything that you saw with actors or performers of any sort that gave you a little bit of a leg up in seeing people differently.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Knowing what is acting and what's real.
Speaker A:Did it.
Speaker A:Did you feel like that gave you a leg up at all when you started getting people in front of your camera, how to make them feel comfortable, how you make them feel less performative and more like themselves?
Speaker A:Was there anything in there that gave you that influence?
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker B:So the, the way that I designed shows is I was at.
Speaker B:I was an in rehearsal hall designer.
Speaker B:So I. Yeah, I was in there with them in rehearsal every single day and I was creating on the fly with them.
Speaker B:So I was as much of shaping the emotion and the direction of the show as the actors and the directors.
Speaker B:It was very collaborative.
Speaker B:And through doing that for years and years and years, you get much better at reading people reading a room, learning how to change that energy and move it.
Speaker B:So a lot of that comes into how I coach and direct people.
Speaker B:Now there was a.
Speaker B:Used to be a theater company based out of New York, is the city company.
Speaker B:And they used.
Speaker B:They were fantastic.
Speaker B:Part of their warmup is they would do an exercise called Viewpoint.
Speaker B:And so they'd go, Ben, come dj, you know, Viewpoint.
Speaker B:So the few times I got to work with them, so I'm watching what they're doing on stage and how they're interacting and that affects the music choices that I'm making.
Speaker B:And as I make music choices, it changes how they're interacting on stage.
Speaker B:So it really becomes this give and take between them and them on stage, between each other, and then me and them on stage.
Speaker B:And I think it's the exact same thing when we're creating with people.
Speaker B:It's like part of my job is to get somebody comfortable to a place where they are willing to give and be themselves.
Speaker B:But then I also have to be able to control the energy of the room to get them where we need to go to tell what stories we need to tell.
Speaker A:And you've said before, and I get this from a lot of your videos too, as you educate people through your site, because you use video incredibly well throughout all your education you use it really, really well as a business tool.
Speaker A:Do you find that.
Speaker A:That collaboration with the client, it becomes more of a shared experience versus you just directing you telling them what to do.
Speaker A:Them starting to add in a little bit of flavor, especially in your fine artwork.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Not necessarily headshots, but in the fine artwork, you find that there is inspiration that you're getting from the client or vice versa.
Speaker A:Like it becomes a little bit more of a partnership rather than a photographer client situation.
Speaker C:Correct?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:100.
Speaker B:I. I take every one of them as a relationship.
Speaker B:It's all give and take, and it's.
Speaker B:I can only do one portrait boudoir session a week because what it takes emotionally and mentally for me to guide people through where they need to go most of the time anyway, it just, it takes more.
Speaker B:I need more time to recharge with it.
Speaker B:And to a certain extent, it does with headshots as well.
Speaker B:But headshots, we're not.
Speaker B:We're trying to get the truest essence where I want them.
Speaker B:I never want fake.
Speaker B:But we're going for one aspect of it or two or three aspects.
Speaker B:We want confident, we want approachable, we want some smiles.
Speaker B:We want some.
Speaker B:Not smiles.
Speaker B:I find with the portrait and the boudoir work, we're going to hit a bigger range of emotions and people.
Speaker B:Some people anyway, can tend to be a little bit more guarded at first, and so providing emotionally what they need can be taxing.
Speaker B:So I just, I need a little bit more time afterwards.
Speaker B:Like, my wife loves those days because I get home and I'm just like, I'm just not going to talk for a few hours.
Speaker B:So she gets a nice quiet.
Speaker A:Yes, but, but that's a huge thing, right?
Speaker A:Especially for photographers like you and I that, that base a lot of our work on that connection, on understanding vulnerability and having a little bit more empathy with our clients and looking at them not as a cash register, but as you fellow artist that maybe hasn't recognized their artistic talent yet.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And we're trying to draw some of that out of them.
Speaker A:You have to emotionally and mentally prepare for that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:You said it's taxing.
Speaker A:Is there something that you do?
Speaker A:Is there any sort of ritual or any mindset that you have to get into beforehand?
Speaker A:Like, even if it's just setting up your lights or I have to have some tea beforehand, is there something that you do that centers you and gets you ready for all that energy you're about to expend?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:So typically, before the makeup artist gets here or while the makeup artist has the client back in the makeup room.
Speaker B:I go find a quiet place in the studio.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm pointing at my sales room, and I know you can't see it over my shoulder, but it's there, so I'll.
Speaker B:I'll go in there.
Speaker B:It's dim, and I just take a few minutes to ground and go, okay, what are we doing?
Speaker B:You know, we have a job to do today.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just.
Speaker B:I take moments to me and I ground.
Speaker B:I do the whole grounding ritual in Envision Roots, you know, going deep.
Speaker B:And, you know, while I'm not a religious person, I am a spiritual person.
Speaker B:So, you know, I do, you know, ask for guidance, help.
Speaker B:Help me help them get to where they need to be to.
Speaker B:To tell the stories that they're comfortable telling.
Speaker B:So, uh, and I. I think those moments are really important.
Speaker B:And then after the session as well, I. I take.
Speaker B:I have to go take a few minutes to go unwind, and it's like, experience the adrenaline dump before I really go do anything else.
Speaker A:Do you give yourself some time between the shoot and then looking at the images, or do you dive right in?
Speaker A:Everybody's got their own style, right?
Speaker A:For me, I need basically the night off.
Speaker A:I put the camera down.
Speaker A:I don't look at the images.
Speaker A:I step back because I want to be able to view them with kind of unbiased eyes, right where I know that when I'm shooting, I've got some amazing shots.
Speaker A:I know there are some in there.
Speaker A:I don't want to look at them and kind of spoil my view for some of the other images.
Speaker A:Do you take any time between the session and when you start looking at what you shot?
Speaker B:So I do my sales session as soon as we get done shooting.
Speaker B:So we're selling straight out of camera.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:And then after that, then.
Speaker B:Because typically, I try to do my.
Speaker B:My portrait boudoir sessions, like on Friday, if I'm lucky.
Speaker B:So after that, once it's done, computer goes closed, and I don't look at them again until at least the top of next week.
Speaker B:Because I also have this entire process where when I'm shooting, it'll be, oh, my God, I love these.
Speaker B:These are the best things ever.
Speaker B:And then I'll look at them later and be like, what end of the camera did I look through garbage?
Speaker A:And then I have.
Speaker B:Then once I come back to start working on them, I can go, okay, these are halfway decent.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I actually had an image that went on in one competition in Cosmos Awards.
Speaker B:When I first shot it and it was with a model for content, I was like, no, this is hot garbage juice.
Speaker B:This will never see the light of day.
Speaker B:Two months later I looked at it again.
Speaker B:I was like, what was I thinking?
Speaker B:And then I got it ready and went out and like, it won print competitions and stuff.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be the judge of my own work.
Speaker B:Other people should look at this from now on.
Speaker A:How do you control your inner critic?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:Your, your comparison, the, the look at vanity metrics or this person's business is really doing well.
Speaker A:How do you avoid comparison?
Speaker A:Or do you avoid it or do you embrace it?
Speaker A:Like, where do you sit with all of that inner voice stuff?
Speaker B:Right now it's Woodford, Double oak.
Speaker B:Double oak.
Speaker B:That's the good stuff.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's.
Speaker B:I'm from Kentucky.
Speaker B:I got it.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I, I would love to be able to go.
Speaker B:That inner voice and comparison doesn't exist.
Speaker B:I'm above all of that and not at all, you know, I, it's still very much a part of things that I deal with and at times it gets the better of me and I've got to be able.
Speaker B:I have to get to a place where I can step back and go, what really matters at the end of the day?
Speaker B:Does a million likes on an image really matter or did, you know, bringing that piece of art into the world and it didn't exist before, does that matter?
Speaker B:And really it's breathing art or breathing life into that art, that's the important part, you know, comparison.
Speaker B:And I talk to friends about it.
Speaker B:You know, it's my buddy Trevor up in Canada.
Speaker B:I've talked to him and been like, you know, so and so's business is doing better than mine.
Speaker B:Why is that?
Speaker B:And it's, you know, and then I have to.
Speaker B:And I actually, just thinking about this the other day, driving in is like the business that I have right now is the exact business that I dreamed of having the first time I saw sue on Creative Live.
Speaker B:Like, I, you know, I've got it.
Speaker B:Could it be doing better?
Speaker B:Sure, it could always be doing better.
Speaker B:You know, it's, you know, it's a joke between my mother and I.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, how much money is enough?
Speaker B:It's like, well, $1 more than I have.
Speaker B:So it's, it's all always striving to do more and better because that's part of the fun.
Speaker B:You know, if I achieved everything I wanted to do, then I'd be Bored.
Speaker B:But it's like dealing with those inner critics and comparison.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:For me, it's.
Speaker B:I've got to get to a place where I can take a step back, which is not always easy.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes it takes my wife going, you realize you're being a jackass.
Speaker B:And then I go, yeah, I know.
Speaker B:But then being able to label it is huge too, you know, going, this is what you're feeling, you know, whether that's envy or jealousy or you're just dealing with depression today or whatever, being able to give it its name kind of enables you to conquer the beast sometimes.
Speaker A:You were very successful in the theater world before the politics and, you know, all the weirdness got in there.
Speaker A:Very successful there with.
Speaker A:With one career.
Speaker A:Do you feel that same level of confidence in the photography world, or do you ever feel like you're just still kind of learning?
Speaker A:Do you embrace where you are versus, like, wow, I still have a long way to go, or is there a balance in there somewhere?
Speaker B:I. I think it's more of a balance.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:It's both.
Speaker B:At, you know, at times, there's very much the, I'm Ben Markham.
Speaker B:Like, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm untouchable, you know, I. I'm doing everything I want to do.
Speaker B:Life couldn't be better.
Speaker B:And then there's times that I'm, you know, like, I. I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker B:So that there is that balancing act to it.
Speaker B:But I. I feel like there's always learning and growing, though.
Speaker B:Like, there's never going to be a place to where I go.
Speaker B:I know everything.
Speaker B:There's nothing else that I can learn.
Speaker B:And it was the same with sound design, you know, And I. I would occasionally go back with sound design and revisit my old designs and go, okay, wow.
Speaker B:I really improved from here to here to here.
Speaker B:And I do the same thing with photography.
Speaker B:It's, you know, if you look at my work from five years ago to today, I think the work is better, and I hope in five years from now, it's better yet again.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:I guess I've always kind of been an artist at heart.
Speaker B:I could have never gone and worked a day job, a stiff job or whatever, because I. I would have gotten.
Speaker B:I don't want to be office space, you know, Like, I. I have to be creating and learning and growing.
Speaker B:That just, that's what it keeps the world interesting and fun.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker B:When it stops being fun, then I throw things away and go do something else, you know, So I Like that.
Speaker A:That you're able to do that, though, and recognize that about yourself to.
Speaker A:To say, you know, this isn't stimulating me anymore.
Speaker A:It's not lighting me up, so why do it?
Speaker A:Let's do something else that's going to make this life fulfilling.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And, you know, it.
Speaker A:It seems to me in looking at your boudoir work specifically, right, you got such this fine art, classical realist, m impressionist sort of feel, right?
Speaker A:And I've heard you talk about some of your influence, the John Singer Sargent or maybe Wyeth or, you know, Homer Winslow or like these kind of early 20th century artists, painters.
Speaker A:Do you work from the aspect of a painter's mentality, or do you look at photography as a different discipline?
Speaker A:Were you ever into painting?
Speaker A:Or do you just look at the art and say, wow, I'd love to be able to recreate this style in what I do.
Speaker A:Talk to me a little bit how that painting or those artists influence kind of what you're doing with your fine art.
Speaker B:So one of the things that I struggled with when I first picked up the camera and was trying to figure out what I wanted to do was finding a voice with it.
Speaker B: So, you know, I started in: Speaker B:And, you know, you're going, okay, well, if that's how I gotta go make money, that's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker B:But I hated it.
Speaker B:And so it took me some time, and actually it took a friend sitting me down and go, man, you just gotta make work that you want to look at to really kind of flip that switch for me.
Speaker B:And it got me thinking about what do I like looking at?
Speaker B:You know, when I grew up, my mother worked for Kentucky Opera.
Speaker B:At that point, the opera, their main offices were based out of an old Victorian mansion here in Louisville's the Brennan house.
Speaker B:So the Brennan's things were still.
Speaker B:It was still the Brennan's house.
Speaker B:So including, you know, their library, their art and all of that.
Speaker B:So I was around these big, beautiful paintings from the time that I was a wee little guy.
Speaker B:And so that sort of idea of what portraiture could be was more interesting to me than, okay, you know, let's everybody just smile and, you know, the Baptist basement photos, as I like to refer to it.
Speaker B:So I grew up Baptist.
Speaker A:I can go there.
Speaker B:So that's when it really kind of.
Speaker B:And I actually, I didn't intend on going the boudoir route at all when I started.
Speaker B:I really envisioned more of doing just classic style portraiture, because I was like, I think we can bring back, even if it's just a little bit that classic style and things that are going to be timeless.
Speaker B:I don't want to create work that's going to be an avocado green refrigerator.
Speaker B:I want things that are going to get passed down.
Speaker B:The boudoir side of it started happening.
Speaker B:And I don't, uh.
Speaker B:It's on the wall behind me.
Speaker B:You can barely see her up behind me.
Speaker B:Uh, it was a painting that I saw in the Cincinnati Museum of Art called Woman Drying Her Hair by an artist named Joseph de Camp.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, there.
Speaker B:I think there's a way that we can do this and not make it look like a white snake video.
Speaker B:So let's see what happens.
Speaker B:And it started taking off, and I was like, you know, I enjoy the work, but people are also willing to pay me for it.
Speaker B:So let's go.
Speaker B:So to my surprise, more people decided they wanted to pay me for the boudoir work than they did for the classic portrait.
Speaker B:I'm happy to do both, but more people are comfortable doing that.
Speaker B:So I don't know if I fully answered your question or if I just rambled endlessly.
Speaker A:No, there are a couple of things in there, and I think you might have labeled the title of the episode with the avocado green fridge.
Speaker A:I have one growing up, so it brought back all sorts of memories, and I know how quickly that went out of style.
Speaker A:Now, you also mentioned the.
Speaker A:The white snake video, which one, ages you, my friend.
Speaker A:And two, I knew exactly what you were talking about.
Speaker A:So it ages me.
Speaker A:And I made the same exact reference to somebody yesterday.
Speaker A:So the whole tawny catain thing, shaping us as we were young teenage boys, I totally understand where it comes from.
Speaker A:But you've never.
Speaker A:You've never, ever struck me as the guy with the camera.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And I know that as a male in boudoir, this is something that we all kind of fight against is the stereotypical guy with camera.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And I love that you've kind of taken this left turn from what is traditionally thought of as boudoir, which could very well go into camp and just being campy images.
Speaker A:And you refer to it the same way I did, and I didn't even know you called it.
Speaker A:This would.
Speaker A:Intimate portraiture.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I know for me, when I was, you know, learning from Cara Marie, and I'm learning from sue, and I'm learning these beautiful styles of intimate portraiture that I would not think of as boudoir.
Speaker A:I don't think you do either in your infusing these fine art elements, these painterly elements, and this real artistic flair that is, quite frankly, a bit more uncommon these days than the campier stuff.
Speaker A:And that's not to say that every other style is.
Speaker A:That's not what I'm saying.
Speaker A:What I'm saying is you've really gone the opposite direction, and you've brought it way into that painterly, classic world.
Speaker A:So the lighting is different, the posing is different, the sensuality, the intimacy is all different.
Speaker A:When people come in knowing that they're going to have a shoot with you like this, I'm assuming that there are all these walls that are up.
Speaker A:How do you start to break through those walls?
Speaker A:And I know you're an ultimate professional.
Speaker A:That's not the question.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:But how do you break through someone's mental walls with what they're about to do?
Speaker B:It starts with a consultation.
Speaker B:And I'm one of the folks that I insist on it before we ever worked together, because I want people to get a chance to meet me.
Speaker B:Because if they meet me and go, I don't think I jive with him.
Speaker B:I don't want them to come in.
Speaker B:And vice versa, if I meet somebody and go, our vibes just aren't gelling, then I can refer them out to somebody else.
Speaker B:But during those conversations, we'll talk about, why are you doing this?
Speaker B:Are there.
Speaker B:What parts of you do you like?
Speaker B:What parts of you do you not like, and why?
Speaker B:And so we talk about where they are, what they're hoping to get from the experience and from the art and really just kind of where they are emotionally.
Speaker B:So we start that relationship there.
Speaker B:I'm also a planner.
Speaker B:The old theater in me comes out, and I do view every photo shoot that I do as kind of a mini production.
Speaker B:So I encourage people to think about what you're going to wear or not wear.
Speaker B:And, you know, if you're.
Speaker B:If there's things that you know that you want to do, let me know what those are, you know, or if you're just going to say to me, you're the artist, run wild, then let me know that as well.
Speaker B:And I'm going to talk to you in advance about things that I'm thinking and I'm planning.
Speaker B:And then the day of, you know, I meet them where they are emotionally.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:I've gotten pretty good about being able to feel someone's energy as soon as they Hit the door so I can meet them at that place.
Speaker B:My makeup artist team that I work with, they're also, you know, fantastic at it, and we've got a good rapport, but it's talking the entire time and treating people like they're humans.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, I'm not just going, you know, you're just a prop in there.
Speaker B:It's like we're just two people hanging out.
Speaker B:There just happens to be a camera in between us.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And people seem.
Speaker B:It seems to.
Speaker B:To work.
Speaker B:Some people, I, you know, some people, you know, you've seen my work.
Speaker B:A lot of people come in and do things completely nude.
Speaker B:Some people come in and go, I'm never going to do that.
Speaker B:Which is great.
Speaker B:Other people think they're never going to do that.
Speaker B:And then go towards the end of their session, you know, I'd like to try.
Speaker B:Have you tried it?
Speaker B:Because they.
Speaker B:They get to a place where they're.
Speaker B:They're feeling different, they're seeing things different.
Speaker B:I'm here to create whatever they would like me to create.
Speaker B:So it's interesting.
Speaker A:I. I run into the same thing.
Speaker A:Can we try this?
Speaker A:Right at the end, right after you've had such a good time and everybody's a bit more relaxed and, you know, you've done everything that you set out to do, and then there's still a.
Speaker B:Little bit more time.
Speaker A:It's like, do you want to play a little bit?
Speaker A:Is there anything else you want to try?
Speaker A:Do you feel a little bit more adventurous?
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:You know, what's on your mind?
Speaker A:And I find that that's where a lot of good stuff happens.
Speaker A:But what I've.
Speaker A:What I've noticed over time is that there are consistencies in that customer experience, and you do a good job of breaking down those walls.
Speaker A:Through all your education, do you find that there is something particular to human nature that you've learned through doing all this work that other people might not know?
Speaker A:Is there some part of what makes us human that you've seen in almost every shoot that you've come across?
Speaker B:People do want to be seen.
Speaker B:And I know that sounds, you know, very cliche of it's a photographer kind of trope, but it's.
Speaker B:I think these days, people don't.
Speaker B:People feel invisible.
Speaker B:And so having those moments of being like this, I'm being seen as a person and somebody cares on some level, and that.
Speaker B:That's everybody.
Speaker B:That happens with my portrait and boudoir work.
Speaker B:That happens with my headshot work.
Speaker B:Men and women, you know, it's.
Speaker B:It's a kind of across the board.
Speaker B:And then a lot of people like to be reassured as well.
Speaker B:It's, you know, that a.
Speaker B:In here, you can't do anything wrong, but if it.
Speaker B:If it sucks, I'm going to hit delete, so don't worry about it.
Speaker B:But then also that.
Speaker B:No, we got it, not.
Speaker A:We didn't.
Speaker B:You did it.
Speaker B:I smashed a button.
Speaker B:So it's you.
Speaker B:You were doing a phenomenal job.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:You can watch people relax.
Speaker B:You can.
Speaker B:And it happens with almost everybody that I work with.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just a. I'm doing something right in it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, No, I get that.
Speaker A:And I think it takes years.
Speaker A:As I've watched other photographers, I'm always in tune to how comfortable they are in whatever part of the craft they're doing.
Speaker A:How comfortable are they with their lights?
Speaker A:How comfortable are they in natural light?
Speaker A:How comfortable are they at the functions of their camera or posing or directing or just carrying on a conversation?
Speaker A:I could say a lot about your experience level and your comfort with what you're doing when it's unconscious competence.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And you're just doing your thing and you can focus on the person in front of you.
Speaker A:I think there are a lot of moments that photographers like you and I search for, those in between moments where that's the good stuff.
Speaker A:The guard comes down a little bit more, the smile goes up a little bit more.
Speaker A:The eyes are different.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:We're looking for those.
Speaker A:Those tiny moments.
Speaker A:Is there something as you look through the viewfinder or camera or tethered on your screen?
Speaker A:Is there something that you look for before you press that shutter that makes you hesitate just that one more half a second?
Speaker A:Is it something that you've noticed that if you say a certain thing elicits an emotion, what is it that you're looking for?
Speaker A:What are the details that you're looking for before you just mash that button?
Speaker B:As you say, I'm looking for people not to be acting.
Speaker B:I'm looking for people not to be trying to get it right.
Speaker B:And what I say to people, it varies, you know, with people.
Speaker B:I mean, I've.
Speaker B:I've got some, you know, I've got some shtick that's always in my back pocket or whatever.
Speaker B:But part of the joy of talking and listening to people is they will give you material to be able to use to get real reactions from them.
Speaker B:So, for example, I was doing headshots of my makeup artist's husband yesterday, and, you know, he's old farm boy, you Know, kind of stoic, you know, great guy that just kind of laid back.
Speaker B:I know that a couple of months ago because makeup artist told me he had gotten a truck stuck, you know, back in their back field, went to go get his old truck to pull it out.
Speaker B:And when he did that, he broke the old truck pulling up.
Speaker B:So I knew this was there.
Speaker B:So I was able to go, you know, talk about the two trucks breaking.
Speaker B:And his guard instantly went down.
Speaker B:And it's a beautiful, natural shot because it's him.
Speaker B:So it's those moments.
Speaker B:And you may only get that much to do it, but it's like when I can make you stop thinking about the camera, the real you comes on to the face for a minute.
Speaker B:I know that's going to be glorious.
Speaker B:Every single time.
Speaker A:There's such an arc to that.
Speaker A:And it's conversational art is really all it is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because the, the process of pressing that shutter and getting someone that's acting and someone that's not, that process is exactly the same.
Speaker A:You're working with an index finger.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:The ability to draw out that natural feeling in someone, especially when they're in an awkward situation like sitting in front of a camera that they haven't done since they were 14, I think, you know, says a lot about the operator of said camera.
Speaker A:So your ability to do that, it's no wonder that more and more people come to you and feel, you know, comfortable, whether it's a headshot or whether it's some legacy photo or boudoir or whatnot.
Speaker A:I was curious about that only because there is a certain element of comfort that you have to have in yourself, knowing that you're going to get the shot and be able to carry on a conversation.
Speaker A:And you've always been able to do that really well, whether you are in front of someone or you're talking to them through video.
Speaker A:Like, we kind of started this whole conversation and I wanted to.
Speaker A:To kind of circle back to some of that short form video because you do it so well and you've incorporated it on your website so well, the education that you have.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:I'm kind of looking at it on the boudoir site now, right.
Speaker A:Where you answer kind of these frequently asked questions and it's unbelievably well done.
Speaker A:Do you find that people are watching those or do you have to direct them to the video?
Speaker A:Meaning, you know, do they watch it and then say, oh yeah, I like this guy, or do you point them to the videos afterwards?
Speaker A:How does that relationship with what you do for educational content, work with when you're first talking to a client, typically.
Speaker B:Before people ever call me because they'll scroll down the website and I've got Those kind of FAQs on the main page so they'll see those and then they go start clicking through.
Speaker B:So they watch those videos before they ever reach out.
Speaker B:So they, they, they've seen it and they know what to do.
Speaker B:Now I, I will, during the prep phase of things, I will send those videos out to people in case they haven't seen it.
Speaker B:But it's, it's kind of people's first if they haven't seen me on TikTok already.
Speaker B:It's their first introduction to me to kind of getting my vibe.
Speaker B:I need to update them because my hair's gotten longer, so I gotta change all that.
Speaker A:Well, you know, I think too you, you've lost a ton of weight too.
Speaker A:Like I've been watching you over the years and you're slimming down and I see you in the gym all the time.
Speaker A:You've got the same I think approach to fitness as I do, which is like, let's stop fitting this donut into my mouth and start going to the gym once in a while.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, you've been incredibly consistent with that over, you know, the past six months anyway that I've seen like you doing this probably longer than that.
Speaker A:But how does that changed your energy?
Speaker A:How has it changed your outlook on yourself, your confidence, the people around you?
Speaker A:Have you noticed?
Speaker A:Has there been a noticeable shift in you as you go along month after month after month with this?
Speaker B:Yes, on a lot of different levels.
Speaker B:I was actually, I was doing a great job of fitness stuff pre Covid and then Covid happened and I really like martinis, so, you know, it happens.
Speaker B:So my wife ended up getting back into fitness post and she dropped like 50 pounds or whatever.
Speaker B:And at that point I was like, well if she can do it.
Speaker B:And so it's really her fault I ended up back at the gym.
Speaker B:So a lot of changes though.
Speaker B:You know, one of the business wise, one of the things that I've really noticed is my makeup artist would get behind the scenes video of me and I would see it and I'd be.
Speaker A:Like, oh no, we do not need.
Speaker B:To show that guy to the world.
Speaker B:That is okay.
Speaker B:And so that's not happening anymore mentally, it's a lot of it.
Speaker B:So you know, I, I lift, I lift heavy.
Speaker B:And the correlations between business and lifting heavy is they run parallels like what you put into this is what you're going to get out of this.
Speaker B:And that's been really, really useful from a working standpoint.
Speaker B:My, my hips and back were in bad, bad shape.
Speaker B:So getting up and down off the floor was challenging you.
Speaker B:You'd hear grandpa make a few noises.
Speaker B:So I, I'm moving a whole lot better now than I, I was or if I go on location, like to do headshots, I'm not getting gassed, you know, carrying my gear upstairs.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I, I should have been doing it years ago, but it's, There's a mental game to it.
Speaker B:You know, I, I hate the social media gym culture that it's like, oh, if you don't have motivation, just go do it.
Speaker B:That's kind of crap.
Speaker B:It's like, you know, I was dealing with depression and anxiety and everything else, you know, so I, I had to get myself to a place to do it.
Speaker B:And, you know, now it's different.
Speaker B:Now I'm going, when I get this vessel looking the way I'd like, who's gonna shoot me?
Speaker B:So, you know, and that's a really nice change too.
Speaker B:That's something I would have never said two years ago.
Speaker B:And now I'm going, you know, I'm either doing it by myself in the studio or I'm gonna have to travel somewhere.
Speaker B:So we're, we're gonna make this happen.
Speaker A:It's life altering when you can see yourself in an unbiased way and then see yourself suit through somebody else's eyes.
Speaker A:And, you know, I had the same battles with anxiety, depression, and body image and feeling the way that I am being a guy.
Speaker A:And I, last summer went down to Missouri and had Mitzi Starkweather do an an as I am shoot of me.
Speaker A:And I wound up going through all stages of being clothed to fully nude at the end.
Speaker A:And it was terrifying but liberating.
Speaker A:And it's, you know, it's a level of discomfort seeing yourself, but then this unbelievable wave of love washes over you when you can see yourself and accept it, right?
Speaker A:And it's such an, it's such a freeing feeling.
Speaker A:And I cannot wait till you're at the point where you're like, somebody photograph me, because I'll just be there, be like, hey, man, come on up.
Speaker A:I'll pay your way, get up to Maine.
Speaker A:Like, let's do this.
Speaker A:I think, I think there is something in seeing yourself, especially as a photographer, seeing yourself in that vulnerable way that gives you more empathy, more ideas, ways to understand your client, know what they're going through.
Speaker A:And it's not just a self portrait.
Speaker A:Like when you're, when you're bare assed out there, like you got everything.
Speaker A:And let's just talk for a second before I, before I go on about that, the unsung heroes that are our makeup artists, can we just talk about the fact that they're making the clients feel good.
Speaker A:They're doing double duty with behind the scenes.
Speaker A:They are keeping everything moving along.
Speaker A:I don't think makeup artists get enough credit in this whole process.
Speaker A:And I just want to give a shout out to all the great makeup artists out there that help guys like you and me.
Speaker B:I work with the best team ever.
Speaker B:They, they know they're out in the space when I'm shooting and they know that if I get focused on an expression, which I can do that sometimes I'll miss hands or whatever.
Speaker B:Like, so they're watching the screen and they'll dive in.
Speaker B:You know, it's like so extra eyes and they know what I'm going for.
Speaker B:They're masters of reading the room.
Speaker B:If I started saying good things about them, I'd never stop.
Speaker B:So everybody go.
Speaker B:Love the Beauty Patrol's Instagram page.
Speaker B:They're amazing.
Speaker C:Perfect.
Speaker A:But yeah, when we get back to, you know, kind of the, the gym and the fitness and all that, you know, I've heard other wedding photographers too talk about getting older, trying to do wedding.
Speaker A:I've never done weddings, but you know, about just the physical toll that it takes as you get older.
Speaker A:I'm the oldest I've ever been and I'm the youngest I'll ever be again right now.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And so when I get out of this chair after an hour of sitting in it with you, I'm gonna go, knees are going to crack.
Speaker A:Back is going to crack.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:And these are just the things that force us to have to reevaluate not only the job that we're doing, but the health that we keep ourselves in, you know, the shape that we keep ourselves in.
Speaker A:I want to shift a little bit again back to the video.
Speaker A:And I've keep mentioning your educational videos and TikTok and social media, because as a tool, video is the way to go.
Speaker A:You are consistent with it.
Speaker A:You've got your formula down, you've got your hooks down.
Speaker A:There are so many people, especially in our world, which is surprising, that struggle with all of this.
Speaker A:I know you do mentoring, do you teach, like video production, knowing that you're primarily a stills photographer?
Speaker A:Do you teach video production to other people?
Speaker B:So funny.
Speaker B:You should ask.
Speaker B:I'm actually working, I'm working on an online course for photographers in particular.
Speaker B:It'll be work for any small business but photographers reading in how to do short form video.
Speaker B:Part of the reason I'm doing it is, you know, every time I go to a convention now somebody will recognize me, which is awesome, but still a little bit weird.
Speaker B:And we'll get the talk and I'll be like, you know, where's your TikTok?
Speaker B:And they'll be like, oh, I don't do it.
Speaker B:I can't talk to the camera.
Speaker B:Like, but you've got to like the, the social media world has changed is where, you know, the hell Instagram just changed.
Speaker B:The way everything looks on the iPad it looks like when you go into it, it looks like TikTok, which I hate.
Speaker B:If I want TikTok, I'll go to TikTok, you know, or like in the past couple of months I've had a couple of friends, you know, call and go, let me pick your brain about short form video.
Speaker B:And they're really in there.
Speaker B:It says like, you know what if people are asking the questions?
Speaker B:I'm going to put the course together.
Speaker B:We'll, we'll get it out there and try to help folks.
Speaker B:Big thing right now, everybody listening to this.
Speaker B:Even if you don't buy my, my course, stop using chat GPT to write your scripts and reading them directly off chat GPT because it sounds like shit and that's not how you're going to talk to your clients.
Speaker B:Like talk, talk to people like you're talking to them and it's going to feel stupid at first.
Speaker B:It gets better.
Speaker B:Just keep going.
Speaker A:Yeah, the.
Speaker A:If I see one more example of Parataxis or double negatives or if this, then this or it's not just this.
Speaker A:Each one is a special moment.
Speaker A:Shut up.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:I can almost, I almost feel like calling people out when I see it, right?
Speaker A:And I get really wrapped around the axle about this because I use, I use Claude and ChatGPT and perplexity and all the AI tools out there, big proponent of it, but man, oh man, they all write the same.
Speaker A:And when I see people doing that, like you took the lazy route.
Speaker A:You couldn't take the five more minutes to change a couple words, take some dashes out, right?
Speaker A:Just make it your own.
Speaker A:Make it sound like.
Speaker B:Well, and, and not only that, what ChatGPT and I use ChatGPT.
Speaker B:It was trained to do photographer stuff from reading photographer websites and most copy of Websites is crap.
Speaker B:So it's like you're taking other people's crap and now putting it up, being like, look how smart.
Speaker B:No, you're a smart person as it is.
Speaker B:And so you use your words.
Speaker B:Like when I'm doing longer form video, I script it, you know, I read off a chiropromter.
Speaker B:Of course I don't do it for short form, but before I ever record it, I read it and go, does that sound like me?
Speaker B:And how my natural flow goes.
Speaker B:ChatGPT is great to a point, but I'm actually now disillusioned with it.
Speaker B:It's all the way across the board.
Speaker B:It's like you've gotten dumber and dumber because there's more people using you.
Speaker B:So it's, I think use your brain.
Speaker B:It's, it's good.
Speaker B:You can, you can do this.
Speaker A:So it's so funny.
Speaker A:It's just, you know, not everything is a special journey to an emotional moment that's going to bring legacy and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker B:I mean, it's all, I get the.
Speaker A:Sentiment that people are going for that we're not necessarily all wordsmiths and that we need a little bit of help here and there.
Speaker A:But at the same time, you can't go from essentially speaking like this to some flowery language if that's not you.
Speaker A:Because when people start to talk to you, they're like, you didn't write that, that's not you.
Speaker A:Or they're going to see that and be like, oh God, that's chatgpt.
Speaker A:I don't even know this person.
Speaker A:If they're inauthentic on their website, are they going to be authentic in person?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And I just think, man, it can be so detrimental to trying to establish your brand, even though it makes it easier.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So in this age of scrolling and likes and vanity metrics and everybody kind of doing the same thing, how do you create work that feels timeless?
Speaker A:And you said this kind of at the beginning of the conversation where it was classic portraits, bringing back classic portraits.
Speaker A:In this age where it's just content, content creation and short form video and do this, do that, where everything is living for seconds at a time.
Speaker A:We're not even talking hours anymore, we're talking seconds at a time.
Speaker A:How do you create work that's timeless?
Speaker A:And I'm not talking the short form video, I'm talking your portraits and some of the stuff that you put together.
Speaker A:How do you make it feel long lasting without an expiration date?
Speaker A:How do you do that?
Speaker B:I'M not creating for social media.
Speaker B:And that's the mindset I go into with it from the get go, even when I'm creating content because I have to create content for marketing or whatever.
Speaker B:That's not how I envision the work's final life.
Speaker B:My work should outlive me for hundreds of years if I'm lucky.
Speaker B:And that's kind of the mindset as I'm doing it.
Speaker B:It's like, will somebody still look at this and stop 200 years from now and go, I don't care if they know who created it, I won't be here to enjoy that.
Speaker B:But going, how can I take somebody out of their humdrum daily life even for a second?
Speaker B:And so I think approaching the work that way really shifts the mindset.
Speaker B:And it was the same thing with my sound design too.
Speaker B:It's like my job every night was to take people out of their world for two hours.
Speaker B:So it's like I don't envision the work as being disposal.
Speaker B:I used to always say, and I still say it is like if you treat something like it's special, then it's special.
Speaker B:And so I treat the work like it's important and like it's special.
Speaker B:And, and I think some people that, that resonates.
Speaker B:I mean, they book me.
Speaker B:So I know I got a few right.
Speaker A:You, you fooled another one.
Speaker B:Markham got them finally.
Speaker B:Finally.
Speaker B:But I really, I really think that's it.
Speaker B:And I think this, this isn't disposable, you know, it's my, my art is not a 24 hour cycle.
Speaker A:Well, I love, I love that, I love the fact that you go into it not thinking about the social aspect, which I think is what quite a few people do when they don't necessarily have their own North Star or true direction or true voice yet.
Speaker A:And they feel like they need to create something popular to gain recognition for the work that they really then want to do.
Speaker A:And it seems so counterintuitive when, if you're just making the work that you love, people will notice it and your tribe will show up.
Speaker A:It might not be immediate if you're making something really out there, but you're gonna find your crowd.
Speaker A:And that doesn't come from just making things for the algorithm.
Speaker A:And I just, I love that you stay independent of that yet still reap the rewards of doing the things on.
Speaker A:On social.
Speaker A:Throughout this conversation, you've had this very grounded sense of reality between, like, life is fleeting.
Speaker A:I'm trying to make some people feel really good about themselves, produce work that might have some lasting power to it.
Speaker A:And I'm not caught up in the he said, she said world of, to social media.
Speaker A:I have to believe that a lot of those values were instilled at a young age.
Speaker A:You've talked about your mom quite a bit.
Speaker A:You know, being in the opera.
Speaker A:Was there a lesson that you learned from her early on that you still carry with you?
Speaker B:So many.
Speaker B:So my, my mom is, is super cool.
Speaker B:One of my best friends.
Speaker B:She, you know, she had me and my sister, well, my sister and me when she was very young.
Speaker B:So we in essence grew up together.
Speaker B:She is one of the hardest working humans that I know.
Speaker B:She was working a full time job, part time job, going to college, raising two kids.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And because, you know, now we're, we're Gen X, we were also latchkey.
Speaker B:So here's your key, don't burn the house down sort of jam.
Speaker B:We had to get responsibility because we helped the household run too.
Speaker B:So it's, you know, we had our chores, we had things to do.
Speaker B:You know, I, I learned to cook at a very early age because it could take the load off of her and I'm really good at it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But it's, it's hard work.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:If you want a thing, you work your ass off to get it.
Speaker B:And that's not the grind culture.
Speaker B:I'm very anti grind culture as well.
Speaker B:And I've gotten more there with the past couple of years.
Speaker B:But, but even just you know, 15, 20 years ago, she left her job in corporate America, bought a franchise in a kids fitness program, started it from nothing in Louisville and grew it to a juggernaut in the area and then sold it, you know, when she retired.
Speaker B:But she was like, I'm doing the thing so there's no stop, you know.
Speaker B:And so it's a lot of that from her.
Speaker B:Also learn how to read a wine list at a racing form from her.
Speaker B:So you know, life skills, things in life.
Speaker B:Yeah, very important life skills.
Speaker B:So she's, she's, she's great.
Speaker B:And actually one of the most nerve wracking portraits I've ever created was of her.
Speaker B:So it was for her birthday a couple of years ago and she said, I want a birthday for a portrait for my birthday.
Speaker B:It's going over her fireplace in her den.
Speaker B:And I was very nervous about doing this and she was like, why are you so nervous?
Speaker B:And I was like, because what if I it up?
Speaker B:You're my mom.
Speaker B:And she's like, well then don't it up.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, all right.
Speaker B:Thanks, Mom.
Speaker B:Good advice.
Speaker B:So, yeah, we didn't.
Speaker B:It's gorgeous.
Speaker B:I was terrifying.
Speaker A:But, you know, that's the best advice.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:That's definitely.
Speaker A:You could tell she was a, you know, Gen X parent.
Speaker A:Boomer to Gen X parent.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Well, being like, well, just don't it up.
Speaker A:Like, it's just that easy.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:It's like you're separated at birth, you and I. I'm always curious.
Speaker A:I think as I grow older, I start to think, you know, you become a bit more reflective just by nature.
Speaker A:And I think about a lot of the lessons that you learn through, you know, what are the things that stick with you over the years?
Speaker A:And work ethic, I think is.
Speaker A:Is one of those things that we get taught by so many different lessons, and we don't realize that it's just teaching us to have better work ethic to earn the good thing, rather than being entitled to the good thing.
Speaker A:Regardless of what your stature is in life, you're not entitled to anything.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, understanding that at an early age that work brings you what it is that you want, no matter what the work is, brings you what you want.
Speaker A:That's a.
Speaker A:That's a huge thing that I think is less common these days.
Speaker A:And that there's this bit of sense of entitlement of, you know, well, I just started my TikTok.
Speaker A:Why don't I have a million followers already?
Speaker A:Or, you know, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm doing this thing.
Speaker A:I open the doors.
Speaker A:I'm a photographer in the area.
Speaker A:Why am I not flooded with clients?
Speaker A:Chance, right?
Speaker B:You gotta do the work.
Speaker A:So I love that.
Speaker A:I think I got the same thing from my dad as we start to kind of land this plane, because I could sit here and talk for hours.
Speaker A:God.
Speaker A:As you start to move forward with your business, you've diversified very well.
Speaker A:You've created this.
Speaker A:This wonderful footprint in Louisville.
Speaker A:What's next?
Speaker A:What's pulling you forward?
Speaker A:What do you feel in the back of your brain that's like, I'm going to kind of focus on that next.
Speaker A:Not necessarily diving completely, but what are the things that are pulling those threads in your consciousness that you want to start attacking?
Speaker B:There's a part of me that wants to get into doing education stuff.
Speaker B:I'm trepidatious about it.
Speaker B:So this is where some of my BS comes in and going, there are so many educators out there right now, and I think so many of them putting out not the greatest information that I go, I. I have to figure out how to separate myself from that, and that.
Speaker B:That's for my own ego and pride getting in the way.
Speaker B:So that's definitely a part of it.
Speaker B:I don't know where else I want to take the art in the business.
Speaker B:You know, I'm loving doing what I know I want to do more, but I don't know what that means yet.
Speaker B:And then there's another part of me that wants to, you know, chuck it all and just go train dogs, you know, So I don't know.
Speaker B:You know, it's the full transparency for those people who were kind enough to stay long enough.
Speaker B:Over the past couple years, you know, my anxiety and depression have really kicked my butt, and I'm just on the backside of that and so refiguring out, like, okay, cool, we're.
Speaker B:We're enjoying the stuff again.
Speaker B:Where are we going?
Speaker B:What are we doing?
Speaker B:And it's almost like a reawakening, for lack of better term.
Speaker A:Dig into that a little bit.
Speaker A:What, was there a precipitous moment or what did you do to realize you're like, wow, I'm in this kind of funk.
Speaker A:I don't want to be here.
Speaker A:How do you climb out of it?
Speaker B:So many ways.
Speaker B:You know, I. I did start going to therapy and all of that, and, you know, if anybody's ever toying with the idea of doing, do it, it's very, very useful.
Speaker B:I'm a pro wrestling fan.
Speaker B:They actually got a therapy chant going Monday night on Raw that was magnificent.
Speaker B:Acknowledging, you know, being.
Speaker B:Getting to a place where you can go and being okay with saying, I'm not okay.
Speaker B:And once you can kind of get there and you can start then breaking down, why am I not feeling okay?
Speaker B:And addressing those issues?
Speaker B:And that doesn't.
Speaker B:You know, I've always dealt with depression and anxiety in some part of my life.
Speaker B:You know, it's a.
Speaker B:It's a roller coaster.
Speaker B:Chemical imbalances in the brain are a lot of fun, but it's learning in those moments.
Speaker B:Okay, is this real or is this just a moment?
Speaker B:Do you just need to take a step back for a minute?
Speaker B:Do you need to ask for help?
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Self awareness, I think, is.
Speaker B:Is the biggest thing, but not.
Speaker B:Not treating like, Like a taboo, like, you're not.
Speaker B:You're not broken.
Speaker B:You know, it's just a part of life, and you.
Speaker B:It's okay to ask for help.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker A:That's a hard lesson for a lot of people to learn.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:We don't want to show Weakness.
Speaker A:Especially guys, right?
Speaker A:Especially guys that are like maybe older than 35, like asking for help.
Speaker A:That's not an option.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I would rather lose both my arms than say, can you hand me that hammer?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I'll pick it up with my teeth.
Speaker A:I don't need anybody to hand me anything.
Speaker A:And it's the most self destructive thing you can do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:All it does is isolate you further and further and further from the things that you really want, which are generally human connection relationships, you know, just interpersonal connection of any sort of.
Speaker B:And back to the fitness side of it too.
Speaker B:It's the reason I got up to almost £320 was I was building a shield around myself.
Speaker B:It's, you know, I comfort with food and booze and so, you know, I didn't want it.
Speaker B:It's like, okay, this is giving me a moment of comfort.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And in doing that I was creating shielding.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, it's common, you know, we see it with a lot of people and then that will spiral you two as you go, oh, look how out of shape I am.
Speaker B:You know, I, you know, it's, yeah, that, that was big for me just to look at that and be like, your depression is showing, you know, because I'm.
Speaker B:When a client or whatever is here, I, I won't let them see it on my face.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:You know, or I'm not going to put that in short form video.
Speaker B:It's going to manifest in other ways.
Speaker A:True, true.
Speaker A:And I think that also is very common and I love, I just love the, the fact that you're self aware enough to know what those triggers are, what it does to you, what you're doing in response to it.
Speaker A:And you know, you self correct to the best that you can.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Every day is not going to be a winner.
Speaker A:Every day is not going to be a loser.
Speaker A:You just kind of figure it out.
Speaker B:We're back to that harmony, right?
Speaker A:And exactly.
Speaker A:The folks that I've spoken to and my own experiences being with depression and anxiety and, and all the things that happen is that once you start to dig in, it's very easy to then blame yourself for other parts of life.
Speaker A:So for example, all right, I haven't gone to the gym for a while.
Speaker A:So that's why I eat bad, that's why I've gotten fat, that's why I don't want to look in the mirror, that's why no one likes me, that's why I can't like.
Speaker A:And it just exacerbates it Gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker A:And all you did was just say, I'm a little bit too tired to go to the gym.
Speaker A:And then suddenly nobody likes you and you're better off alone and you know, like, where's the Woodford?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:And you just start boozing.
Speaker A:Believe me, I've lived that life several times.
Speaker A:So I think that little bit of self awareness that you're exposing is such a huge part of any movement forward to health, true health.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Size doesn't matter in the whole meat bag thing that we got going on, but if you can take care of it, it's like your car.
Speaker A:You don't want the undercarriage to rust out.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But you don't have to wax it every single day.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:So some people wax every single day, they go blind.
Speaker A:So I think in.
Speaker A:In connecting to other people.
Speaker A:That little bit of self awareness, I'm sure serves you very, very well because you notice it when it's also affecting someone else.
Speaker A:You see the p behind the eyes, you hear it in their voice, what they're not saying versus what they're saying.
Speaker A:Do you find that for your own journey that you found a level of solace in that saying, like, oh, I'm not the only one that feels this way and not like, thank God you're as bad as I am.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker A:I'm not saying that, but like, do you find some sort of.
Speaker A:All right, we've got common ground.
Speaker A:I can work from here.
Speaker A:We don't have to necessarily call out our depression, but there's a mutual understanding of where we are here.
Speaker A:And I've.
Speaker A:I've been down the road you're traveling.
Speaker B:Yes, I do.
Speaker B:I think it's one of the more valuable things on TikTok as well, is because the TikTok community is very different than any other social media community that I've been on.
Speaker B:And people are very open about their challenges and depression and that is a part of it.
Speaker B:And there's a big supportive community in that as well.
Speaker B:So there is a lot of where we're out here, you know, we get in.
Speaker B:There is a comfort in that.
Speaker B:And I do find more that I, Especially in this cycle of working with it, I'm much more.
Speaker B:If I see somebody in a place or somebody needs an ear to be like, no, no, no, you're.
Speaker B:You're not alone.
Speaker B:You know, my brain chemistry is off to, we're cool.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker B:What do you need right now?
Speaker B:You know, and it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's really.
Speaker B:It's interesting but, yeah, I do find it to be helpful.
Speaker B:You know, we're not alone.
Speaker B:You know, it's just because it feels like we're in a dark little corner here.
Speaker B:That's just because you haven't turned the lights on out there yet.
Speaker A:And, and that's really it, you know, And I, I, I like talking about this stuff.
Speaker A:Not to drag you through the wringer on it, but just that we all have very similar outputs from the experience.
Speaker A:We're like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, no, I understand things a lot more.
Speaker A:Or, wow, I can understand where you're coming from a little bit more.
Speaker A:I can approach this a little bit with a bit more sensitivity and maybe watch what I'm saying because I know it could be a possible trigger, right?
Speaker A:It's not to necessarily not be yourself, but it just gives you some empathy, some compassion.
Speaker A:I think a lot of times, not only compassion for the person in front of you, but compassion for yourself.
Speaker A:And, you know, the process that I've gone through over the last 10 years with all of this has been very much mirroring yours of.
Speaker A:It's up and down, it's a cycle.
Speaker A:You do the best you can day in and day out, and if the trend over time kind of looks like the S&P 500 and it's generally upwards, then great.
Speaker A:But if you start to, I notice, like, hey, we're heading towards a recession, like, all right, I need to stop eating so many marshmallows and maybe I'll lay off the martinis for a week or so, right?
Speaker B:Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker B:Hey, sorry, I didn't mean to offend you.
Speaker A:So, speaking of which, you are down in Kentucky and you are in the bourbon belt.
Speaker A:So as a former bourbon snob, give me some pointers.
Speaker A:The things that people need to know when going on a bourbon tour in and around Kentucky.
Speaker A:What are the things to do?
Speaker A:What are the things to avoid?
Speaker A:Because I know, you know, I mean.
Speaker B:There'S so, so one.
Speaker B:Don't let anybody tell you this is the way you're supposed to drink bourbon.
Speaker B:That's in the.
Speaker B:There's a lot snooty people that way.
Speaker B:Drink your bourbon the way you want to drink your bourbon.
Speaker B:If you, if you like your bourbon neat, drink it neat.
Speaker B:If you like it with ice, drink it with ice.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker A:Oh, Lord.
Speaker B:What else?
Speaker B:There's so many, there's so many good distilleries and things to do here.
Speaker B:I'm a big proponent of go do the bourbon trail.
Speaker B:And there's.
Speaker B:It's so much bigger than it was visit the distilleries do the tastings figure out because the, the flavor profiles are crazy and the different things you can experience.
Speaker B:Maker's Mark is not a great bourbon.
Speaker B:It's a, it's a good starter sub marketing a lot of places.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And for the longest time it was all you could get.
Speaker B:And you know the very well marketed.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:You could put it in a Coke, but there are many other bourbons.
Speaker B:So be, be brave, try other things.
Speaker B:And it's not moonshine if you bought it off a shelf in the grocery store.
Speaker B:I know some places where you leave money in a tree.
Speaker B:I'm just saying.
Speaker A:And that's, that's how it is out here in the sticks of Maine.
Speaker A:Do I totally understand.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you have a favorite, like small label brand that you think is kind of a best kept secret?
Speaker B:Peerless is fantastic.
Speaker B:And it's there.
Speaker B:They're actually right here in Louisville.
Speaker B:Their, their single barrel melted my face.
Speaker B:It was amazing.
Speaker B:Their double oak was great.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:I actually, I did a party here in the studio last November and I had several of their bottles here and I was so grateful that people didn't drink that much.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, more for me.
Speaker B:Get out stairs.
Speaker B:But yeah, I really like Pierre Oys stuff and my wife's a big rye fan and they've got a rye that was cured in some different barrel.
Speaker B:But she goes.
Speaker B:And it's like a $150 bottle.
Speaker B:So I'm like, I'm not buying that every week.
Speaker B:Settle down.
Speaker B:Not every week.
Speaker B:She's not quite there.
Speaker A:Oh, I get it.
Speaker A:I get it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I used to have a little bit of a collection and people knew me as a bourbon drinker and I was, I'm always a fan of going someplace and trying something I've never had.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And you can always get your Buffalo Trace and your Angels Envy and your Bullet and your Maker's Mark and your, you know, if you're lucky, you can find Pappy here and there.
Speaker A:But I'm always looking for a little, you know, the insider info on, you know, what I can look for out there.
Speaker A:And I haven't tried Peerless, but I know of the brand.
Speaker A:I just haven't tried it.
Speaker A:So I'll have to try to pick up a bottle, see if they have anything in the northeast here.
Speaker B:So there's a, it's a small family run distillery and I believe if you show up down there, there's a little old woman that works there.
Speaker B:They Call her Granny.
Speaker B:I'll tell you stories about Granny off air.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:But evidently she cooks lunch every day.
Speaker B:And if you're down there, you're like.
Speaker B:Like, Granny cooks cook.
Speaker B:So my makeup artist husband works down there as well, so it's a.
Speaker B:It's good stuff.
Speaker B:I just did a.
Speaker B:They did a bourbon tasting with burgers at the local Capital Grill here.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's phenomenal.
Speaker B:It's like, keep bringing me different flavors.
Speaker B:This is great.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So are you going to be heading out to any of the.
Speaker A:The shows at the beginning of the year and conferences and you go to imaging or you go to WPPI or do you any.
Speaker A:Do you do any of the shows?
Speaker B:I keep saying I need to get my stuff together for imaging because I think it's just down in Nashville this year, which is only like two and a half hours down the road from me, so I will probably be down there for that.
Speaker B:I haven't been out to PPI in a while.
Speaker B:I'm a big GU guy, so fitting onto a plane is uncomfortable for that long.
Speaker B:They don't make them for guys that are 6:3, so.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:But if any of you run into me at a conference, I'm taller than you think I'm going to be, so.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, you're taller than I.
Speaker B:Thought you were all like.
Speaker B:I go walking through and they're like, you're huge.
Speaker B:You know, Like, I know I run into things a lot, so.
Speaker B:So I might do wppi.
Speaker B:My buddy Richard Wayne keeps nagging me.
Speaker B:I need to come out there again and drink with him.
Speaker A:So maybe.
Speaker B:But probably imaging this year.
Speaker C:Perfect.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:I might try to make it down there.
Speaker A:If I do, then we will absolutely find some little dark, dingy speakeasy and make sure that their quality control and their bourbon is.
Speaker A:Is up to snuff.
Speaker A:What do you say?
Speaker B:I'm here for it.
Speaker A:I'm here for it, too.
Speaker A:Like, I'm all over that.
Speaker A:Hey, man, this has been an absolute blast.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for just kind of hanging out as long as you have and talking about all the things.
Speaker A:I can't wait to see your course come out.
Speaker A:I want to have everybody check that out, because if you can make videos like Ben as consistently as he does, then you're going to be in a good spot.
Speaker A:Where can Everybody find everything?
Speaker B:Benmarcum.com the headshot website is benmarkham.com the boudoir website, because it's really running two separate businesses, is Boudoir by Ben Markham.
Speaker B:Instagram.
Speaker B:I'm@Ben Markhamphoto.
Speaker B:And then there's Boom.
Speaker B:Bob.
Speaker B:I've been Markham there.
Speaker B:TikTok.
Speaker B:I think I'm just Ben Markham or Ben Markham photography.
Speaker B:I'll let you know.
Speaker B:You can throw it in the show notes.
Speaker B:I'm one of those, you know, if you stumble across videos of the big dude in the kilt, that's me.
Speaker A:You know, we didn't even wander into your wardrobe.
Speaker A:And I just.
Speaker A:And I'm not going to say anything other than the fact that you dress really, really well.
Speaker A:And I always see that as a sign of respect to the audience and the client when you dress really well, both in the videos and in the studio.
Speaker A:And I've seen your stuff and, you know, kilt aside, like, you're always in a shirt and tie and just, like always, very well dressed.
Speaker A:And I appreciate a man that dresses well.
Speaker A:So thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I feel better when I.
Speaker B:When I have it on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you look good, my friend.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Hang out here for just a minute, but I'm sure I'm going to catch up with you on the road.
Speaker B:All right, cool.
Speaker B:Sounds like a play.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:Thanks, friend.
